E I Addio 15,861 Posted March 12, 2016 Can I ask a few questions of the knowledgeable on here...on whether the below could or could not work? The BSPA do a deal with an engine company, to provide bulk standard 'sealed' engines to Clubs within the leagues. s? The most popular engine in this country is GM. GM do not sell ready to race engines. They have to be sent to a tuner to assemble in race able condition. You woukd need several different tuners to build them for a whole league, and no two hand built engines would be quite the same. That is your first problem. To supply 7 man team with 2 engines per rider would cost at least £50k. Where would cash strapped clubs find that sort of capital outlay? One rear tyre per meeting. That is the tile already so no saving there. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted March 12, 2016 In answer to a few... The clubs could find the money by not paying out so much in contracts. As for engines not being 100% exactly the same...I don't see that being a problem. They aren't now...I'd say 'standardised' engines would be closer to being the same, than what each individual rider competes against one another now. As for what is popular now...that needs to be thrown out the window. Speedway is slowly dying...each year the authorities pussy foot around, tinkering here, tinkering there...I've never known a sport tinker so much. The whole sport needs a massive shake up and needs to go back to basics. The problem I see in this sport...is there are too many people not willing to change...always saying 'It couldn't work'...and too many people trying to make a buck from it. Too many 'hangers on'. It really does need to go back to basics and extreme measures in my book. Everything about this sport is complicated...from the rules, starting out as a rider, regulations...and as for any newbie understanding what's going on, you need a diploma in mathematics. People have become so engrossed in it...that they can't see the wood for the trees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Long Eye 278 Posted March 12, 2016 In answer to a few... As for engines not being 100% exactly the same...I don't see that being a problem. They aren't now...I'd say 'standardised' engines would be closer to being the same, than what each individual rider competes against one another now. You've really thought that bit through have you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted March 13, 2016 You've really thought that bit through have you? So you are saying the engine of an elite number 1 GP rider is similar to that of a young reserve? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Long Eye 278 Posted March 13, 2016 So you are saying the engine of an elite number 1 GP rider is similar to that of a young reserve? Sometimes. But also riders prefer different set-ups to get around the same track on the same night. One might find extra heavy flywheels suits his style whilst his team mate prefers very light flywheels. The idea of having a pool of engines allocated randomly is to ensure each rider would be on the same footing. Not all 'tuning' is to increase power. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted March 13, 2016 Sometimes. But also riders prefer different set-ups to get around the same track on the same night. One might find extra heavy flywheels suits his style whilst his team mate prefers very light flywheels. The idea of having a pool of engines allocated randomly is to ensure each rider would be on the same footing. Not all 'tuning' is to increase power. Exactly... This is why Speedway needs to adapt. Right now, riders are tinkering all the time to get their bikes as perfect a fit to themselves. What I personally think needs to happen, is a back to basics. Get that pool of engines...put it in the rolling chassis. Then get on and learn to adapt and ride the damn thing. Of course it will go against the grain...as certain riders would lose an advantage. But every rider would be in the same boat. Adapt and get on with it. Riders have now become more important than the sport. 'Speedway' needs to take over and not let riders dictate. For the good of the sport...not so that some riders can retire in relative prosperity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 586 Posted March 13, 2016 In a previous life i did a lot of mechanicking (cars, bikes, maintenance, tuning, road, off-road, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, etc) but a change of career means I'm somewhat out of the loop and rarly get my hands dirty so could someone please explain exactly what is meant by an off-set engine? I've racked my brains a bit but to be honest I can't imagine what it means, sorry if it's already been answered.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sommelier 1,118 Posted March 13, 2016 In a previous life i did a lot of mechanicking (cars, bikes, maintenance, tuning, road, off-road, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, etc) but a change of career means I'm somewhat out of the loop and rarly get my hands dirty so could someone please explain exactly what is meant by an off-set engine? I've racked my brains a bit but to be honest I can't imagine what it means, sorry if it's already been answered.... The piston to the side of the crank center line, less frictional loss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I Addio 15,861 Posted March 13, 2016 In answer to a few... The clubs could find the money by not paying out so much in contracts. s. Every post you have made has been answered by a variety of posters, mostly with first hand experience and a technical background explaining why your ideas are not practical. You have rejected those comments with fanciful suggestions with no factual basis. You now reckon that clubs could could find around £50k for 14 new engines by not paying so much in contracts. So perhaps you can back this up with a few facts. How much do clubs pay in contracts now and how much of a reduction would riders accept to make this £50k saving? On your idea of a pool of engines riders don't know which engines they are going to get and therefore how much money they will make. Unless you can show us your costings it looks like a pie in the sky argument. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Stadia 1,071 Posted March 13, 2016 In a previous life i did a lot of mechanicking (cars, bikes, maintenance, tuning, road, off-road, 2-stroke, 4-stroke, etc) but a change of career means I'm somewhat out of the loop and rarly get my hands dirty so could someone please explain exactly what is meant by an off-set engine? I've racked my brains a bit but to be honest I can't imagine what it means, sorry if it's already been answered.... I know Sommelier has answered, but there is a Wikipedia under Desaxe. I hadn't heard of it either, the Wiki is very descriptive. However, not sure I fully understand it after reading it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reviresco 708 Posted March 13, 2016 I know Sommelier has answered, but there is a Wikipedia under Desaxe. I hadn't heard of it either, the Wiki is very descriptive. However, not sure I fully understand it after reading it! Found this useful for an outline of offset technology: https://rideapart.com/articles/free-power-offset-cylinders-explained 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 586 Posted March 13, 2016 Ah interesting, thought it could have meant the engine mounted more to one side. E.g. if you look closely at a pic of Mauger's gold bike, the frame appears twisted. It is, Ivan himself told he had it so 'adjusted' to provided a better ride at Wroclaw, the venue of his 1970 win; obviously it worked. Thanks to all who replied, some reading to be done then.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric i 624 Posted March 13, 2016 Every post you have made has been answered by a variety of posters, mostly with first hand experience and a technical background explaining why your ideas are not practical. You have rejected those comments with fanciful suggestions with no factual basis. You now reckon that clubs could could find around £50k for 14 new engines by not paying so much in contracts. So perhaps you can back this up with a few facts. How much do clubs pay in contracts now and how much of a reduction would riders accept to make this £50k saving? On your idea of a pool of engines riders don't know which engines they are going to get and therefore how much money they will make. Unless you can show us your costings it looks like a pie in the sky argument. £50k for 14 new engines that would be a £3571 an engine, I think they could get them cheaper than that, peter johns talks about a potential cost of £2000 per engine in his article. Although I agree some clubs would still struggle to finance a pool of engines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted March 13, 2016 Every post you have made has been answered by a variety of posters, mostly with first hand experience and a technical background explaining why your ideas are not practical. You have rejected those comments with fanciful suggestions with no factual basis. You now reckon that clubs could could find around £50k for 14 new engines by not paying so much in contracts. So perhaps you can back this up with a few facts. How much do clubs pay in contracts now and how much of a reduction would riders accept to make this £50k saving? On your idea of a pool of engines riders don't know which engines they are going to get and therefore how much money they will make. Unless you can show us your costings it looks like a pie in the sky argument. The answers given, have all been based on what is happening now. For example...you said riders prefer GM's at the moment. I know they need to be assembled through the likes of Trevor Hedge etc. The point I have been making...is that riders have too much control over what happens in Speedway. For the Sport to survive long term, it, imo, needs a massive overhaul. Every year, it's a tweak here, a tweak their...covering over the cracks. It's all short term, rather than long term. Give me a reason why the BSPA couldn't go to a Speedway manufacturer and do a deal for Club engines? A basic Jawa engine now is approx. £2000....GM's more expensive. Why can't the BSPA make new rules and say...these are the rules...these are the engines...bring your rolling chassis...we fit the engine...now just go out and ride the thing? It's all very well saying this rider prefers this...that rider prefers that...that may be the case now, which is how Speedway has developed. But ask yourself...why is speedway struggling? Why is speedway so expensive to run? Why does it cost riders so much money to be competitive? It's not just about keeping water and a bit of grit out the engine when cleaning...costs are way too expensive, because engines are being tuned to near breaking point...just to get that little bit of advantage. And nearly every rider is having to do it to compete...so it's a vicious circle. It needs to stop somehow. So by bringing in standard engines to ride...fitted into a riders own preferred rolling chassis...with adjustments just made to clutch, sprockets etc...what's wrong with that? A rider may say...I prefer the set up this way...but tough. Ride the damn thing as it's given. Everyone would be in the same boat. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac101 1,211 Posted March 13, 2016 Pretty sure some Riders would just love to turn up and put a standard engine into their roller at no cost to them what's so ever ride the guts out of it because if it blows up they wouldn't care and go home maybe no points money because the engine was unless lacked power where it counts, A top rider will blow standard engine up in no time as it will be ridden to the max not many riders ride there own engines to the max I am pretty sure at the start of last year Richard Lawson went throught a spate of blowing a few engines up too he found out it was his new carb that was the problem flooding and when methanol. Gets into your oil it turns to water seizes pretty quick , speedway is a cheap sport compared to some motorsports it's like anything that's mechanical look after it and it will last a lot longer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
