Who Has Ridden At Most Uk Tracks?

[daveallan81 330]

tmc, on 20 May 2016 - 3:55 PM, said:

 

You're right.

 

Appearances on non-league licenced tracks should definitely be included.

 

Why would you drop George Hunter's 1960-64 track appearances when compiling a list relevant to the whole post-war period?

 

That was only to compare him directly to McMillan.

 

So does Iwade count as a 'non-league licensed track'?

 

It's all largely irrelevant for the overall result though, no-one from the 65-present era will beat Jimmy Squibb's figure, there just weren't enough tracks in operation.

[TonyMac 720]

 

That was only to compare him directly to McMillan.

 

So does Iwade count as a 'non-league licensed track'?

 

It's all largely irrelevant for the overall result though, no-one from the 65-present era will beat Jimmy Squibb's figure, there just weren't enough tracks in operation.

 

Yes, I think Iwade should count for the purpose of this analysis - it was, after all, licenced by the SCB and pukka training track matches were staged there in the 70s. It won't help Thommo to catch Squibby but it may make the difference between him and another contender.

 

It's the likes of Johnny Guilfoyle's private training track at Chelmsford, Essex that wouldn't come into the reckoning.

Edited May 20, 2016 by tmc

[Tracy Bird 66]

Malcolm Simmons rode athe Belle Vue Kirky Lane as well...for Kings Lynn in 93.

and barrow(park road) for Wimbledon against Berwick 1981 inter league cup and Weymouth for Poole inter league challenge.

[lucifer sam 3,953]

and barrow(park road) for Wimbledon against Berwick 1981 inter league cup and Weymouth for Poole inter league challenge.

 

Simmo at Barrow is here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TGlesVS8dc

 

Rob Grant passed him from behind in his trademark forceful fashion!

 

 

All the best

Rob

[daveallan81 330]

How do you define an 'official' match at a training track? Is it not just a training session run to a format rather than a collection of random scratch races?

 

To keep any sense of accuracy only appearances in an official capacity should be considered. Case in point: Graham Jones of Berwick rode in second halves at Eastville but never in a full meeting. Unless you had knowledge above and beyond the published results there is no way you could know this and the results become skewed. A hypothetical example, Jimmy Mac didn't 'officially' ride at Paisley, but he perhaps rode in a 'special guest match race series' one night?

 

Without setting any criteria all you'll have until all avenues have been checked is a 'probable' list.

[Joe Beevers 207]

Good topic.

 

Well I would guess more recently that Tony Atkin was riding when there was one large Premier League (Now called the Elite League of course and much shorter) and also rode the current Premier League tracks and now rides the National League tracks plus he rode on defunct tracks like Milton Keynes and Long Eaton and he is 46 years old and still going. I would put him near the top.

[daveallan81 330]

John Jackson racked up 55 plus 2 non-league from 1970-83. He missed out on 5 league tracks (Nelson, Glasgow Hampden, Bristol Eastville, Reading Smallmead and Leicester) and 2 non-league (Ashington & Motherwell).

 

Tony Atkin would be lucky to hit 50.

[TonyMac 720]

 

Simmo at Barrow is here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TGlesVS8dc

 

Rob Grant passed him from behind in his trademark forceful fashion!

 

 

All the best

Rob

 

I should have remembered - it's on our Memories of Berwick Speedway DVD!

How do you define an 'official' match at a training track? Is it not just a training session run to a format rather than a collection of random scratch races?

 

To keep any sense of accuracy only appearances in an official capacity should be considered. Case in point: Graham Jones of Berwick rode in second halves at Eastville but never in a full meeting. Unless you had knowledge above and beyond the published results there is no way you could know this and the results become skewed. A hypothetical example, Jimmy Mac didn't 'officially' ride at Paisley, but he perhaps rode in a 'special guest match race series' one night?

 

Without setting any criteria all you'll have until all avenues have been checked is a 'probable' list.

 

The public were admitted to those licenced training track matches at Iwade, which is another reason why I think they should be included.

 

As for your example re. Jimmy Mac, if he rode at Paisley then that should be added to his list of venues. Those special match-races involving star riders were usually the BIG attraction on the night.

 

I agree, it would be hard to confirm every such appearance but if we know about it, then include it.

[steve roberts 9,246]

Not sure where Ken McKinlay would stand having ridden in the old National League, British Leagues One & Two?

[TonyMac 720]

Here is a piece I've written for the next issue of our Classic Speedway mag, which goes to press today.

 

I know what has been said on here about Squibb, Hunter, etc, but the idea of tghis piece is that it will stimulate debate among our readers (believe it or not, they don't all read this forum!).

 

Ideally, I'd love to present a Top 10 once all the research is completed and we are ready to crown The British Track Record Holder.

 

'Compost', would you please email me, Tony Mac, at editorial@retro-speedway.com

 

Thanks to all for your input.

 

Cheers,

TMc

 

PS - sorry about the fonts going a bit haywire!

---------------------------------------

 

WHO IS THE ULTIMATE BRITISH TRACK RECORD HOLDER?

 

WHICH post-war rider has ridden at the highest number of British speedway tracks?

 

It's an interesting question that cannot be answered without exhaustive research . . . and Retro Speedway is on the case.

 

The results of our detailed findings will be published in the next issue of Classic Speedway. While we keep you on tenterhooks, why not try and guess who the most travelled rider since 1945 could be.

 

Jack Parker, Phil Bishop, Geoff Pymar and Wal Morton (see p15-20) are obvious name that immediately springs to mind and, no doubt, would be strong contenders for the title of 'British Track Record Holder' if their pre-war appearances on long defunct circuits were also taken into account.

 

But for the sake of this exercise we decided to focus on the years following the second world war.

So who will top the list?

 

You would think that the winner would come from the group of riders whose careers spanned at least two, and maybe even three, divisions of racing, so we have to start by looking at those who competed in the old National League (1946-64), Provincial League (1960-64) and then the British League, which resulted from the NL/PL amalgamation in 1965.

 

Ivan Mauger, Ken McKinlay, Reg Luckhurst, Terry Betts, Malcolm Simmons, Norman Hunter, Trevor Hedge and the Scottish pair of George Hunter and Jim McMillan, among others, come into the reckoning at this point. The globetrotting Mauger would possibly top our list if his innumerable overseas track appearances were a factor but, as we said, this is a UK-only project.

 

What is for certain is that Mauger's Provincial League years with Newcastle in the early 60s puts him ahead of fellow greats Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Ove Fundin, whose careers in Britain were confined to the top division.

 

Do loyal, long-serving stalwarts such as Mike Broadbank, Nigel Boocock and Les McGillivray also have a claim?

 

The launch of British League Division Two in 1968 spawned a host of brand new venues, so now you have to consider riders who began racing in that fledgling second sphere before spending many seasons in BL1, at a time when 18 or 19 top flight tracks were in operation. We're talking about the likes of Dave Jessup, Barry Thomas, Peter Collins, John Louis and Phil Crump.

 

Let's not forget those who raced in the 50s, throughout the 60s and ended their long careers in the second division: McKinlay, Peter Moore, Stan Stevens, Reg Trott, Colin Gooddy, George Major, Jimmy Squibb and Reg Luckhurst all rode for teams at NL, PL and BL2 level.

 

And what about those whose careers endured so long that they ended up competing in National League (second division), which evolved from BL2, in some cases well into the 80s. Laurie Etheridge, Eric Broadbelt, Mick Handley, Graham Plant, Thomas, Jessup, McMillan, Hunter and Simmons did just that. Simmo actually made his competitive debut at New Cross, shortly before the south London venue closed in 1963 . . . and went on to race at three different Glasgow tracks.

 

Riders who began racing in BL2 and/or competed in the NL for many years certainly rattled up the mileage, too. Think John Jackson, Steve Lawson, Steve Wilcock, Robert Hollingworth, plus Les and Neil Collins.

 

As well as all those tracks who featured in the different leagues mentioned above, we are also including venues that ran on an open licence or were granted non-league status, including Rye House, Eastbourne, Aldershot, Ipswich, Yarmouth, Motherwell and, later, Iwade, so you'll appreciate that it's not an easy appearance list to compile.

 

Think you've got the answer? Well, don't miss our next issue when all will be revealed and we will crown the ultimate British Speedway Track Record Holder.

Edited May 24, 2016 by tmc

[Guest compost]

Note split into 2 postings - Part 1

 

The results are in and Jimmy Squibb top scores with 68. We then have Colin Gooddy on 60 with the rest trailing – Wal Morton 47, Les McGillivray 45, Geoff Pymar 44, Phil Bishop 43 and Jack Parker a surprise distant last with but 38.

 

The tracks they rode on are listed below.

 

A couple of comments. These results are taken from the files on the Speedway Researcher website. Sadly the pre-war results are incomplete so the totals for Parker and Bishop in particular would have been higher had full details been available I suspect.

 

The 3 tracks in Ireland are Not included in the rider totals. Ireland is not in the UK and the initial question was with respect to UK tracks. For info Parker rode at all 3, Pymar & Squibb rode at 2 and Morton at 1.

 

Where a town had more than one track in operation (e.g Newcastle, Birmingham, Stoke etc) I have listed each track separately.

 

I understand that Rye House moved track before entering BL2 in 1974 even though they remained at the same venue. I have listed the post 1973 track as a separate one to the pre 1974 one. Likewise with King’s Lynn I understand the 1953 venue to have been different to the current one. Please let me know if this is incorrect.

 

Note that both Geoff Pymar and Wal Morton rode for Bradford against Neath in 1962. However, the match was held at St Austell and so Neath is not counted in the tracks rode at totals (Jimmy Squibb was the only 1 of the 7 to have actually ridden at Neath).

 

They all rode at the following venues

 

Belle Vue Hyde Rd, Bradford Odsal, Bristol Knowle,Coventry, Cradley Heath, Edinburgh Old Meadowbank, Exeter, Glasgow White City, Hackney, Harringay, Leicester (Stadium), New Cross, Newcastle Brough Park, Norwich, Poole, Sheffield, Southampton, Stoke Hanley, Swindon, Wembley, West Ham, Wimbledon, Yarmouth

Part 2

 

Jack Parker also rode at - Ashfield, Crystal Palace, Hall Green Birmingham, High Beech or King's Oak, Lea Bridge, Liverpool, Nottingham, Perry Barr Birmingham, Plymouth, Portsmouth, St Austell, Stamford Bridge, Walthamstow, White City London, Wolverhampton

 

Phil Bishop also rode at - Aldershot, Ashfield, Crystal Palace, Edinburgh Marine Gdns, Fleetwood, Hall Green Birmingham, High Beech or King's Oak, Lea Bridge, Leeds, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Nottingham, Oxford, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Preston, Rayleigh, Stamford Bridge, Walthamstow, Weymouth

 

Geoff Pymar also rode at - Ashfield, Bradford Greenfields, Cardiff, Crystal Palace, Eastbourne, Fleetwood, Hall Green Birmingham, Ipswich, Lea Bridge, Liverpool, Middlesbrough, Motherwell, Nottingham, Oxford, Perry Barr Birmingham, Plymouth, Rayleigh, St Austell, Walthamstow, Weymouth, Wolverhampton

 

Wal Morton rode at - Aldershot, Belle End, Bradford Greenfields, Crystal Palace, Fleetwood, Halifax, Hall Green Birmingham, Ipswich, King's Lynn 1953, Lea Bridge, Liverpool, Long Eaton, Luton, Middlesbrough, Motherwell, Nottingham, Perry Barr Birmingham, Plymouth,

Rayleigh, St Austell, Walthamstow, Weymouth, Wigan Poolstock, Wolverhampton

 

Les McGillivray rode at - Aldershot, Cardiff, Coatbridge, Dunmore Belfast, Glasgow Hampden, Halifax, Ipswich, King's Lynn 1965 on, Liverpool, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Motherwell, Newport, Oxford, Perry Barr Birmingham, Plymouth, Rayleigh, Rye House Stadium, St Austell, Tamworth, Weymouth, Wolverhampton

 

Colin Gooddy rode at – Aldershot, Berwick, Boston, Brafield, Bristol Eastville. California, Canterbury, Coatbridge, Crayford, Eastbourne, Ellesmere Port, Glasgow Blantyne, Glasgow Hampden, Halifax, Hull Boulevard, Ipswich, King's Lynn 1965 on, Long Eaton, Mildenhall, Motherwell, Newport, Oxford, Perry Barr Birmingham, Peterborough, Rayleigh, Reading Smallmead, Reading Tilehurst, Ringwood, Rye House Hoddesdon (73+), Rye House Stadium, Scunthorpe, St Austell, Stoke Loomer Rd, Weymouth, White City London, Wolverhampton, Workington

 

Finally, Jimmy Squibb also rode at – Aldershot, Ashfield, Barrow Holker, Berwick, Boston, Bradford Greenfields, Canterbury, Cardiff, Coatbridge, Crayford, Crewe, Eastbourne, Ellesmere Port, Fleetwood, Glasgow Hampden, Halifax, Hastings, Hull Boulevard, Hull Heddon, Ipswich, King's Lynn 1965 on, Liverpool, Long Eaton, Middlesbrough, Motherwell, Neath, Newport, Oxford, Perry Barr Birmingham, Peterborough, Plymouth, Rayleigh, Reading Tilehurst, Rye House Hoddesdon (73+), Rye House Stadium , Scunthorpe, St Austell, Stoke Loomer Rd, Sunderland, Tamworth, Walthamstow, Weymouth, Wolverhampton, Wombwell, Workington

TMC (will reply via email).

 

A minor correction for you regarding Jimmy Squibb. His career also spanned the 40's (he rode in NL3 in it's first season) and he finished in the mid 70's. As a correlation to the most tracks ridden at by a rider it would be interesting to see what the theoretical maximum number of tracks that could have been ridden at was (hope that makes sense !)

[steve roberts 9,246]

Super thread!

[Guest compost]

If anyone is in the least bit interested I have made a quick check on the theoretical maximum number of post-war tracks that a rider could have ridden at (by decade to end of the 2000's. How sad!!!)

 

It comes to

1940's would be 46 tracks

1950's would be 52 tracks but only 59 since the end of the war (so only 13 new tracks opened during this decade compared to the 1940's)

1960's would be 55 tracks and 76 .....

1970's would be 64 tracks and 99 ....

1980's would be 51 tracks and 107 since ....

1990's would be 41 tracks and 116 ...

2000's would be 37 tracks and 122 ...

 

Totals do not include the Southern Irish venues (but does include the Belfast one) as well as training/open tracks (such as Iwade and High Beech)

So Jimmy Squibb's total of 68 ridden on out of around 93 (prior to his retirement) is a pretty impressive figure.

The above is also interesting as it shows the contraction down to the core venues of the sport since the 1970's and also how few, comparitively that is, new venues were opened each decade (after the 1940's of course).

Edited May 24, 2016 by compost

[steve roberts 9,246]

Gordon Kennett must also be a strong contender? His British League Division Two career followed by twelve years in the British League and then a further six (?) in the National League?

Edited May 24, 2016 by steve roberts

[daveallan81 330]

steve roberts, on 24 May 2016 - 7:14 PM, said:

Gordon Kennett must also be a strong contender? His British League Division Two career followed by twelve years in the British League and then a further six (?) in the National League?

 

I have Gordon Kennett at 57 tracks with 2 unconfirmed - Weymouth (Radipole Lane) and Belle Vue (Kirky Lane).

 

TMC, please note that Simmo rode at five Glasgow tracks - White City, Hampden Park (rode in the first meeting), Coatbridge, Craighead Park and Shawfield.