RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 19, 2016 I really don'the care whether we have promotion and relegation, let's get everything else right first ..... That's the point, it is part of getting the rest right. Effectively they're looking at one big league rather than two separate leagues with still a large gap in standards. At present there's too many to run as one league, hence the need for a split with movement between the two divisions. If we end up with two leagues of the same relative strengths as today just with a few more in the top league then it will have been a failure. They seem to be tackling several key problems - fixture shortage, tactical rides, rider shortages and absences, at least we have to hope so. Promotion and relegation is being seized upon by those who struggle to think of sport not being organised like football and is far from the essential part of this it seems to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
22A 3 Posted June 19, 2016 Will promotion/relegation ever work? When you have promoters changing the ideal points system to guarantee 3 points for any home win because supporters were disappointed in getting only 2 (after seeing a close presumably entertaining match!!!) can you see them accepting a relegation? Are the supporters desperate for promotion/relegation??? I know that the ex promoter involved in this was frustrated because he wanted the Diamonds to be the best in the country but could never achieve that goal under the existing format. Is the answer to dilute the product even further? I am in favour of movement between the leagues. However in football relegated teams release their better players to reduce their wage bill knowing their income will be reduced being lower down the structure. In Rugby League the team relegated each year from their Super League release their top earners. They are then usually snapped up by the team that's just been promoted as many of their players won't be good enough for the next level up. I see the same scenario in Speedway. Teams may be promoted & relegated, but many of the same riders will be in the same leagues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 565 Posted June 19, 2016 I am in favour of movement between the leagues. However in football relegated teams release their better players to reduce their wage bill knowing their income will be reduced being lower down the structure. In Rugby League the team relegated each year from their Super League release their top earners. They are then usually snapped up by the team that's just been promoted as many of their players won't be good enough for the next level up. I see the same scenario in Speedway. Teams may be promoted & relegated, but many of the same riders will be in the same leagues. Except the reality, in speedway, is that won't happen. Firstly, promotion to a division 1 would not result in any significant increase in revenues either from gate receipts or sponsorship/TV money. So how would a promoted team afford the star names required? Secondly, what if, for example, Belle Vue are relegated and Newcastle are promoted. I can't see Matej Zagar turning down the Polish League to ride for Newcastle on a Sunday. Let's be very clear on this, if anyone is expecting this proposal to result in the return of a first division of world class riders and a second division of PL standard they are massively mistaken. This will be two leagues of PL standard teams. Not a problem for me as I enjoy that product I just don't see the point of two leagues of 10 teams. Although I can't really see there being 20 teams operating at PL level next season anyway. I also can't see what happens to the riders who double up at present. Whilst doubling up and guests are universally unpopular with the fans (me included) I wouldn't be happy if I was a double up rider going from circa 60 (plus guest) meetings to potentially 30 meetings with no guest opportunities. Yes riders could reduce their budget to fit but then how do you compete on a continental stage in terms of equipment and track time? To appeal to a wider audience British speedway needs media exposure and what little it gets of that is via SGP and SWC. What happens when Great Britain has no riders of that standard because no British riders can earn enough or get enough track time to become competitive, having never had the opportunity to ride against that standard of rider domestically? It seems obvious to me that the dilution of the Elite league has only resulted in a reduction in spectators. Whilst I'm happy watching PL standard racing a lot of punters only want to see the star names and vote with their feet accordingly. The problem for British speedway is that it never embraced the introduction of the GP series and rise of the Polish leagues. It never adapted to facilitate itself into the top riders schedules and so many of the top riders have dropped it. My point being, mucking around with heat formats, six man teams and promotion/relegation is not going to halt the decline. The really radical thinking required is how can the big names be incorporated to attract a wider audience and how can British riders become more competitive internationally? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 19, 2016 I feel people are being distracted by the promotion and relegation aspect of this proposal. What is far more relevant is the composition of the six man teams. If the first division were to remain at its present level there is no way the PL teams would be considering this. The only way that this structure could work is by a levelling-out in team strengths between the two divisions and I can't see it being the PL tracks making the changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
22A 3 Posted June 20, 2016 The problem for British speedway is that it never embraced the introduction of the GP series and rise of the Polish leagues. It never adapted to facilitate itself into the top riders schedules and so many of the top riders have dropped it. You have a valid point there. Dunno if it's true, but I heard it said that Thomas Gollub would not sign for a British team because racing is on different days of the week, making personal schedules difficult. Sweden, Denmark & Poland have all meetings on the same day. Here each club decides which day of the week they'll hold meetings and riders have to fit in each team's schedule with their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 20, 2016 You have a valid point there. Dunno if it's true, but I heard it said that Thomas Gollub would not sign for a British team because racing is on different days of the week, making personal schedules difficult. Sweden, Denmark & Poland have all meetings on the same day. Here each club decides which day of the week they'll hold meetings and riders have to fit in each team's schedule with their own. Funny how they could all fit the UK meetings in before the megabucks started flowing in Poland.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 20, 2016 As so many riders come out with at the moment, it is what it is, we need to do the best for British speedway as we can. If the bubble bursts in Poland then we have to try something else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paulco 7,145 Posted June 20, 2016 I hope it happens , could just be the shot in the arm our sport needs 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted June 20, 2016 I hope it happens , could just be the shot in the arm our sport needs The Polish speedway bubble is stretched beyond its true capacity, and soon it will pop, not this yr or next, but season 2018 will be the defining season...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allthegearbutnaeidea 1,744 Posted June 20, 2016 The Polish speedway bubble is stretched beyond its true capacity, and soon it will pop, not this yr or next, but season 2018 will be the defining season......why specifically that season may I ask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) why specifically that season may I ask?I just think that the way money goes around in an economy, 2018 will be a really tough year for Polish Speedway. Paying big money, with sliding attendances, eventually catches up.... -----------:::::--------------- And on the promotion/relegation idea.... Something that worries me about promotion and relegation in UK speedway.. Getting this right is crucial.. if you have 2 divisions of say 12 teams, the top league will I assume have playoffs for the title, yes? Probably the top 4.. they will also have relegation playoffs, again, involving possibly the bottom 2, maybe 3? So that would be say 7 of the 12 teams involved after the main league fixtures have ended.... Who'd want to be in mid table mediocrity? 5 teams with no meaningful extra cash generating meetings at the end of the season, it's VERY important that this area is looked at... Otherwise, teams lower down in the league, could throw a match or two near the end of the season, to drop into the relegation playoffs places, to get themselves some additional meaningful cash generating meetings...... What do you think?? Edited June 21, 2016 by Shale Searcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted June 21, 2016 Would relegation play offs be money generating, or money draining for the top flight side facing relegation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted June 21, 2016 A must win confrontation, lose top flight status, be first club to be relegated? Wouldn't you go to watch that?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foamfence 2,917 Posted June 21, 2016 A must win confrontation, lose top flight status, be first club to be relegated? Wouldn't you go to watch that?? You might, but if they lost would you go next season to watch them against Redcar and other such ****? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
George Dodds 310 Posted June 21, 2016 I am in favour of movement between the leagues. However in football relegated teams release their better players to reduce their wage bill knowing their income will be reduced being lower down the structure. In Rugby League the team relegated each year from their Super League release their top earners. They are then usually snapped up by the team that's just been promoted as many of their players won't be good enough for the next level up. I see the same scenario in Speedway. Teams may be promoted & relegated, but many of the same riders will be in the same leagues. Super League doesn't relegate teams. It was a closed shop for over 10 years, teams having to apply for franchises every three years, and last year introduced the Super 8s whereby the bottom four teams in superleague and the top four in the championship played each other home and away with the top four earning a place in the following year's Superleague. Of course the four Superleague clubs all retained their places not least because their Salary Cap (the level of spending allowed for player wages) is almost double that of those in the Championship. Rugby League has a lot in common with speedway - most of its club are financial basketcases and many fans have a rose tinted view of a past world which never actually existed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
