Belle Vue V Poole, 12/9/16 Rear Wheels Spinning At Tapes

[spinkox 37]

Would you have to modify the footrest to be lower and stiffer?? - or the bike would be at quit an awkward angle at the start...

[AFCB Wildcat 1,362]

I only just seen this thread but yes I noticed it too.

When Buczkowski went through the tapes in heat 3 Tungates back wheel was spinning the whole time and he was creeping forward long before either Buczkowski or Cook moved. I was surprised nothing was said at the time with all the replays.

[Shale Searcher 1,264]

So, is it within the rules or not? I believe it most definitely should not be allowed, if nothing else, it's tyre warming!! Ok, that's not allowed or is it?

[woofers 467]

Here is one of the start procedure rules -

 

"15.2.8 The Start Marshal, shall bring the riders to the Starting Gate, in the order as determined by their gate position, ie. a, b, c then d, ensuring all parts of the motorcycle and rider’s limbs are within the marked Grid (nb. lines are neutral and do not form part of the Grid), with the front wheel spindle being directly above the 430mm gridline and when satisfied the riders are correctly positioned, that their motorcycles are stationary and the rear wheel is in contact with the track surface, s/he shall signal to the Referee to illuminate the Green Start light and walk well clear to the rear of all motorcycles."

 

I would suggest that for the rear wheel to be in contact with the track surface and the bike to be stationary, the rear wheel can't be spinning.

 

I can't see how there is a way to spin the rear wheel, keep it in contact with the track surface and have the bike remain stationary.

[Shale Searcher 1,264]

Well, it's known as tyre warming!! Thought that was outlawed? At the start line at least!!

[A ORLOV 8,628]

Rohan looks to be ok as the rule states the back wheel should be in contact with the track surface at which point the start marshall signals to the ref.

1. It does not state the rear wheel should be stationary

2. The wheel, even when spinning is in contact with the surface

3. The rule does not state that the wheel cannot start spinning between the start marshall signalling to the ref and the rising of the tapes.

 

If you are going to have rules they need to e 100% clear and unambiguous.

 

F1 teams have groups of people going over the rules with a magnifying glass and lawyer and find loopholes that they can use to their advantage.

 

Matt does the same but to a lesser degree and I understand takes the rule book to bed with him each night and studies each line before he goes to sleep.

Edited September 17, 2016 by A ORLOV

[racers and royals 8,736]

The rear wheel cannot be spinning at the start- it has to be stationary. Anything else is cheating and against the rules definately.

[A ORLOV 8,628]

The rear wheel cannot be spinning at the start- it has to be stationary. Anything else is cheating and against the rules definately.

But the rule quoted above does not state that. It should have the words the wheel should be stationary and not be spinning from the time the green light goes on till the tapes rise. The use of every word, positioning of every comma and the grammar used can change the meaning of what is printed.

This is not to say there is another rule not quoted that states the tyre cannot be warmed by spinning it on the surface.

Edited September 18, 2016 by A ORLOV

[Tsunami 10,219]

But the rule quoted above does not state that. It should have the words the wheel should be stationary and not be spinning from the time the green light goes on till the tapes rise. The use of every word, positioning of every comma and the grammar used can change the meaning of what is printed.

This is not to say there is another rule not quoted that states the tyre cannot be warmed by spinning it on the surface.

The difficulty is if you start explaining in even greater detail how and what is not allowed, the rule back would probably quadruple in size.

[Agrotron 955]

Its up to the referee to pick this up if they don't know the rules that's there problem.

[A ORLOV 8,628]

The difficulty is if you start explaining in even greater detail how and what is not allowed, the rule back would probably quadruple in size.

Unfortunately that is correct.

During one period of time I used to read and take to bits, in order to find loopholes, in other peoples and companies patents.

Matt seems to do the same with the bspa rule book, which is how he is able to continually beat all the other promoters when signing riders, building teams and replacing riders.

It seems that the bspa are not capable of writing precise detailed rules, which leave loopholes anyone could drive a juggernaut through.

You have only to look at some of the spelling and grammar used on tweets and communications etc by certain promoters to see why they are not capable of writing a clear and precise rule book. I have no idea if they write the rules or get someone in to do it.

Edited September 18, 2016 by A ORLOV

[Elmo 274]

I remember matej kus being excluded at Redcar for having his wheel spinning after being warned about doing it in an earlier heat.

[SCB 0]

Having discussed this with a referee a few years ago it was agreed between the two of us that the only way you can exclude a rider for this is to claim the rear wheel is not in contact with the ground.

 

Said referee had exclaimed Richie Hawkins the week before at Somerset and argued with him on the phone about if he was right or not and the referee was sure eh was right but was a little unsure himself!

[arnieg 3,648]

Unfortunately that is correct.

During one period of time I used to read and take to bits, in order to find loopholes, in other peoples and companies patents.

Matt seems to do the same with the bspa rule book, which is how he is able to continually beat all the other promoters when signing riders, building teams and replacing riders.

It seems that the bspa are not capable of writing precise detailed rules, which leave loopholes anyone could drive a juggernaut through.

You have only to look at some of the spelling and grammar used on tweets and communications etc by certain promoters to see why they are not capable of writing a clear and precise rule book. I have no idea if they write the rules or get someone in to do it.

 

And have you noticed how the calls for more detail in the rules often come from exactly the same places as the ones advocating a shorter rulebook

[waiheke1 4,295]

Tbh it could be possible to add more detail where needed and still shorten the rule book. The issue is do much of it is horribly written and ambiguous.

Clear and concise doesn't rule out explicit detail where needed.