Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted December 19, 2016 The 1969-1988 era: my nominees - not in any graded order: Ivan Mauger Egon Muller Barry Briggs Bengt Jansson Ole Olsen Billy Hamill Peter Collins Sam Ermolenko Bjorn Knutsson Kenny Carter Hans Nielsen Dave Jessup Erik Gundersen Simon Wigg Bruce Penhall Bobby Schwartz Michael Lee Billy Sanders Jan O Pedersen Bo Petersen ::: For me it's now retire to dark corner and watch the flak fly! A good list Hamill,Muller,Petersen, Wigg,Schwartz are one's i would query.?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted December 19, 2016 69-98 hamill would be included for sure. But 69-88? He was an 18 year old, who had achieved what by 88? He hadn't won an American title, represented his country in a major international event? What demonstration of his talent ate you using to include him ahead of say the moran brothers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 19, 2016 69-98 hamill would be included for sure. But 69-88? He was an 18 year old, who had achieved what by 88? He hadn't won an American title, represented his country in a major international event? What demonstration of his talent ate you using to include him ahead of say the moran brothers? I can't be bothered to have a complex debate. I surrender to you.I will put a delete line through Billy Hamill. Continuing debates with 'seemingly everyone on the BSF' are beginning to demoralise me. That will decrease my nominations to 18 now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted December 19, 2016 In your haste to denigrate my Post you failed to note that I said == "The 1969-1988 era: my nominees - not in any graded order:" Where have I said anything about the order? I've queried the inclusion of some riders above others who haven't made the list. Seems Sidney has queried most of the same.I was in no way denigrating your list, though hamill and knuttson were both bizarre inclusions. Perhaps you could justify the more borderline inclusions rather than getting defensive? I'd say there are maybe 10 riders who would make most lists, the last 10 very subjective (for example I left out j Louis, muller,persson, jansson, Sanders, n Boocock, r Wilson, ermolenko, k moran, wigg, tatum who all had some claim for inclusion). Can't say Petersen or Schwartz would make my top 20 of the 80s, let alone that expanded era. I can't be bothered to have a complex debate. I surrender to you.I will put a delete line through Billy Hamill. Continuing debates with 'seemingly everyone on the BSF' are beginning to demoralise me. That will decrease my nominations to 18 now. Surely the interesting part is having discussions, not just everyone agreeing. If you make astonishing omissions, such as plechanov and Jack young ftom your first list of 49-68, or left field inclusions like hamill (or Mike bast on that other thread) then they will be queried. In which case you can either man up and admit you made a mistake, or take your ball home. More than happy for you to pull apart my list. And just to add: surely Michanek should be in the top 20, without a doubt the 4th best rider of the 70s imo. Certainly a better one-time champ than muller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 19, 2016 Where have I said anything about the order? I've queried the inclusion of some riders above others who haven't made the list. Seems Sidney has queried most of the same. I was in no way denigrating your list, though hamill and knuttson were both bizarre inclusions. Perhaps you could justify the more borderline inclusions rather than getting defensive? I'd say there are maybe 10 riders who would make most lists, the last 10 very subjective (for example I left out j Louis, muller,persson, jansson, Sanders, n Boocock, r Wilson, ermolenko, k moran, wigg, tatum who all had some claim for inclusion). Can't say Petersen or Schwartz would make my top 20 of the 80s, let alone that expanded era. Surely the interesting part is having discussions, not just everyone agreeing. If you make astonishing omissions, such as plechanov and Jack young ftom your first list of 49-68, or left field inclusions like hamill (or Mike bast on that other thread) then they will be queried. In which case you can either man up and admit you made a mistake, or take your ball home. More than happy for you to pull apart my list. And just to add: surely Michanek should be in the top 20, without a doubt the 4th best rider of the 70s imo. Certainly a better one-time champ than muller. How I now regret ever starting this thread. It has badly back-fired on me. Enough-is-enough for me. And as I said + I can't be bothered to have a complex debate. I surrender to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted December 19, 2016 It's an excellent thread. But to be clear - you just wanted people to post their lists and noone comment on them? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BL65 658 Posted December 19, 2016 I have just logged in carefully studied message 103 sent by BL65 which details his views on the rider ratings for the 1949-68 period. I only have one word to describe it - superb. Thank you Gustix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,060 Posted December 19, 2016 Oh dear!! Will Norbold start a new thread for another two forum members? No,just joking.It is all opinions,apart from when a mistake is made and a rider has hardly ridden in a certain period.I asked BL65 about Charlie Monk in 1965 and he gave a good explanation.Still sort of think Monk should be in the top 10 for that year,but at least convinced Plechanov deserves to be above him.No big deal and no theatrics about it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) :::: This is my list with delete lines for Bjorn Knutsson and Billy Hamill. Now only 18 suggestions by me. The 1969-1988 era: my nominees - not in any graded order: Ivan Mauger Egon Muller Barry Briggs Bengt Jansson Ole Olsen Billy Hamill Peter Collins Sam Ermolenko Bjorn Knutsson Kenny Carter Hans Nielsen Dave Jessup Erik Gundersen Simon Wigg Bruce Penhall Bobby Schwartz Michael Lee Billy Sanders Jan O Pedersen Bo Petersen Edited December 19, 2016 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,122 Posted December 19, 2016 :::: This is my list with delete lines for Bjorn Knutsson and Billy Hamill. Now only 18 suggestions by me. Don't listen to 'em, mate; I still think Knutsson should be included in your list! The fact that he never rode during that period is inconsequential... Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) :::: This is my list with delete lines for Bjorn Knutsson and Billy Hamill. Now only 18 suggestions by me. The 1969-1988 era: my nominees - not in any graded order: Ivan Mauger Egon Muller Barry Briggs Bengt Jansson Ole Olsen Billy Hamill Peter Collins Sam Ermolenko Bjorn Knutsson Kenny Carter Hans Nielsen Dave Jessup Erik Gundersen Simon Wigg Bruce Penhall Bobby Schwartz Michael Lee Billy Sanders Jan O Pedersen Bo Petersen I feel more relaxed than earlier today over my list for 1969-98. As I have removed Billy Hamill and Bjorn Knutsson. I would like to replace them to make up 20 riders with -- Anders Michanek, Shawn Moran. Edited December 19, 2016 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted December 19, 2016 I feel more relaxed than earlier today over my list for 1969-98. As I have removed Billy Hamill and Bjorn Knutsson. I would like to replace them to make up 20 riders with -- Anders Michanek, Shawn Moran. Is it 69-98 or 69-88?If the former, I'd stick Hamill back in! If the latter, a couple of good additions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 21,060 Posted December 19, 2016 Is it 69-98 or 69-88? If the former, I'd stick Hamill back in! If the latter, a couple of good additions. I fear it is all getting a bit confusing...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 19, 2016 Is it 69-98 or 69-88? If the former, I'd stick Hamill back in! If the latter, a couple of good additions. I fear it is all getting a bit confusing...... These were the designated eras as shown in Message 9 dated December 15, 2016: lists of Top 20 riders in different eras. 1928-48 1949-1968 1969-1988 1989- to present times Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,955 Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Billy Hamill included on the emergence of talent he was showing in the USA at the time. This is supposed to be a worldwide analysis NOT just based on the British League. Gustix, quick question. Why did you start in 1928 then? Speedway did not start in 1928. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly, but around 1924 seems to be the starting point (I don't think West Maitland in December 1923 was speedway). Why not make it all a bit easier: Top 20s from: The 20s and 30s The 40s and 50s The 60s and 70s The 80s and 90s 2000 onwards All the best Rob Edited December 19, 2016 by lucifer sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
