Derwent Park

[singy13 372]

25 minutes ago, SteelShoe said:

Dwindling crowds are a conundrum contributed to by the amateurish way the sport has been run in recent times.

Without Workington opening up their accounts no one but those very close to Laura can have knowledge of the financial structure currently in place . The club will surely have budgeted for this season based on last seasons last average gates . We do not know how crowds are doing relative to last season but i would say subjectively they are certainly no worse. We had that horrendous run of away fixtures which put a huge strain on finances but it was hoped that some of that would eventually balance out. With half as many league fixtures compared to last season one would assume overall loss potential per meeting would be lower. To quote losses of £50K to £75K if accurate is serious money and unsubstantiated. Other season losses were mooted to be around £30K. Why double with half as many league fixtures ??.

The club employs a Commercial Manager whose major role is to generate income for the club. Laura quoted in a recent press article that some sports clubs generate £30-50K in sponsorship. Obviously we are not at this fairly modest looking level, a level that would surely help underpin the clubs financial security. 

 

Good reading material on here right now...fans that care for the Comets obviously....but here, sadly, we surely only preach to the converted ?

It's not gonna be read by many who could be swayed to re-appear at Derwent Park....although fingers crossed it does help.

I was reliably informed that it costs £75,000 a season to run the Comets.....the informant didn't add the proviso the I kept this info to myself..(this was prior to Diamonds fixture)

And that certainly set the  mindset alarm bells for speedway at Workington.......although to be honest they have been ringing for a while now...hopefully I will still be showing the same concern as the bikes still roar at DP in 2019???????????

[topaz325 1,856]

I am surprised we have survived for this long, the death knell has been ringing for about 2 years now!

The theory of a £10.00 sport is all very well and many would like it to be but many factors come in to the equation for it to be viable, the main ones being rent of the stadium, attendances and any  club sponsorship.

Having crowds of 300/500 blow this out of the water.

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

16 hours ago, singy13 said:

Good reading material on here right now...fans that care for the Comets obviously....but here, sadly, we surely only preach to the converted ?

It's not gonna be read by many who could be swayed to re-appear at Derwent Park....although fingers crossed it does help.

I was reliably informed that it costs £75,000 a season to run the Comets.....the informant didn't add the proviso the I kept this info to myself..(this was prior to Diamonds fixture)

And that certainly set the  mindset alarm bells for speedway at Workington.......although to be honest they have been ringing for a while now...hopefully I will still be showing the same concern as the bikes still roar at DP in 2019???????????

Honestly

You can put a 1 in front of that £75 K singy13 as the cost to run the Comets this year will be in excess of £175 K with a generated income of around £115 K on the original 16 home + 16 away meetings so that is a £60 K shortfall before you turn a wheel (so this is where sponsorship would fill the gap). To cover this cost with paying customers (crowd) alone there needs to be approximately 850 fans through the door and that is at a combined rate of £12.50 per person to allow for concessions, the last two crowds were 391 for the Newcastle meeting and 497 for the Scunthorpe one so working it out on the back of a fag packet those two meetings will have cost the promotion the thick end of a £10 K loss to run over the two meetings. Also the crowd for these two meetings needs to cover the cost of the away legs where Workington performed quite well so riders wages increase because of higher points scored and there is now no contribution against rider costs from the home side as there used to be in the past.

The other irony is that the more successful you are as a club the more it costs, teams not reaching semi finals, finals and play offs will obviously lose less money, due to having less meetings, but the Catch 22 on this is if you have a poor team the crowds dwindle so you end up in a spiral of lower crowds, less money to spend on the team, so poorer league position and a cycle that can be hard to break, especially in the current adversarial environment there is between promotions, there is no reward for a successful speedway team as the more meetings you run the more you lose and the "Myth" of these finals and play off meetings generating bigger crowds is just that.

However I would expect (surely) the next two home meetings with Glasgow and Edinburgh to bring in a few more fans through the door and swell the numbers on the terraces as both clubs, like Workington; have a healthy travelling contingent who follow their team, but I very much doubt we will see the crowd break 1000 fans with a more realistic figure around the 650 to 700 maximum, but I live in hope and who knows the word may get out in Cumbria and those lost fans from the 70's, 80's and early 90's come flooding back

Regards
THJ

Edited September 26, 2018 by TotallyHonestJohn
missed out key word

[singy13 372]

9 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

the word may get out in Cumbria and those lost fans from the 70's, 80's and early 90's come flooding back

Regards

Hope 'the word' does influence larger crowds - somehow it needs shouted from the proverbial rooftops ??? ....like I said there's only the diehards on here.

Regarding £75k............that was the figure a renowned local 'sports person' told me the night of the Diamonds match (mis-match actually)..

I still recall the Workington guru Ian Thomas telling us - approx 10 yrs ago- that "the honeymoon isn't over yet"..given that Comets were still attracting 1,200 folk to Derwent Park.

And the blind optimist in me still thinks that the sport is capable of another honeymoon at Workington...maybe the upcoming re-structuring during the winter can be the saviour?

Meanwhile let's all Comets fans on here get behind the best team in blue and white, Workington style, for years.

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

15 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Hope 'the word' does influence larger crowds - somehow it needs shouted from the proverbial rooftops ??? ....like I said there's only the die-hards on here.

Regarding £75k............that was the figure a renowned local 'sports person' told me the night of the Diamonds match (mis-match actually)..

I still recall the Workington guru Ian Thomas telling us - approx 10 yrs ago- that "the honeymoon isn't over yet"..given that Comets were still attracting 1,200 folk to Derwent Park.

And the blind optimist in me still thinks that the sport is capable of another honeymoon at Workington...maybe the upcoming re-structuring during the winter can be the saviour?

Meanwhile let's all Comets fans on here get behind the best team in blue and white, Workington style, for years.

Honestly

The figures I have quoted are pretty near to; if not spot on; the mark (and I do know your man)

Even the late great Ian Thomas (a man I liked immensely although not everyone's cup of tea) would struggle with the dilemmas that this promotion are facing, he went through it at Newcastle when he took them up and regretted the actions he took forever and a day.

Honestly I am a positive "pot half full" guy but I fear it has gone I can not see a resurgence in any way shape or form I have crunched the numbers for 2019 and it will take a very brave individual to take it on which saddens me greatly.

On you last paragraph "Here Here" it is the best team the Comets have had for years and lets see if they can go out with a bang, not just for the fans of Workington but for Laura, Jacko and the whole promotion, including the back room staff, 

When its gone its gone and it will be dam hard to bring back

Regards
THJ

Edited September 26, 2018 by TotallyHonestJohn

[singy13 372]

20 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

When its gone its gone and it will be dam hard to bring back

Guess I'm being selfish, though it's realistic, because you are right when it's gone can't see it coming back quickly.....though craic going around of new input re promoter for 2019 ?

And the original title of this stream was when I sort of panicked at hearing Derwent Park...my good old venue of thrills, spills and tears, is going soon....... so speedway is not going to be long term whatever.

Re the late great, tho contradictory at times, Ian Thomas......wasn't he just the 'front man' for Tony(moneybags)Mole?

[TotallyHonestJohn 3,078]

Honesty 

I never dealt business wise with Ian Thomas but I have heard he could be hard to deal with at times and if you could see what he could do with a pack of cards you would never have played Poker with the guy as his slight of hand was amazing and he was definitely what you would class as "Marmite" but I thought the guy was great and could have listened to his stories all day long. However he was definitely his own man in my opinion and although a small guy he was a great character and a big miss.

Regards
THJ

[comet49 314]

I'm not too pessimistic about next season having heard from two different sources that we're running, rumours maybe, just hope they're right.

Edited September 26, 2018 by comet49

[topaz325 1,856]

5 hours ago, singy13 said:

Hope 'the word' does influence larger crowds - somehow it needs shouted from the proverbial rooftops ??? ....like I said there's only the diehards on here.

Regarding £75k............that was the figure a renowned local 'sports person' told me the night of the Diamonds match (mis-match actually)..

I still recall the Workington guru Ian Thomas telling us - approx 10 yrs ago- that "the honeymoon isn't over yet"..given that Comets were still attracting 1,200 folk to Derwent Park.

And the blind optimist in me still thinks that the sport is capable of another honeymoon at Workington...maybe the upcoming re-structuring during the winter can be the saviour?

Meanwhile let's all Comets fans on here get behind the best team in blue and white, Workington style, for years.

I very much doubt your optimism and I’m a glass half full guy.

[Tsunami 10,219]

4 hours ago, singy13 said:

Guess I'm being selfish, though it's realistic, because you are right when it's gone can't see it coming back quickly.....though craic going around of new input re promoter for 2019 ?

And the original title of this stream was when I sort of panicked at hearing Derwent Park...my good old venue of thrills, spills and tears, is going soon....... so speedway is not going to be long term whatever.

Re the late great, tho contradictory at times, Ian Thomas......wasn't he just the 'front man' for Tony(moneybags)Mole?

Don't think so. Thomas created good teams and venues, and when they didn't make money he dropped them. No need for Tony Mole, and he had to remortgage his house when he was duped by his promotion partner.

[singy13 372]

53 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

Don't think so. Thomas created good teams and venues, and when they didn't make money he dropped them. No need for Tony Mole, and he had to remortgage his house when he was duped by his promotion partner.

What people do for the love of this wonderful sport, or as in Ian's case -did-  is/was often above and beyond the call of duty. And it must be (have been) soul destroying to try and keep their speedway input going....... a far cry from Football/Golf/Tennis/RU and other wealthier sports....easy life for those non-minority outfits eh?

[SteelShoe 500]

8 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Honestly

You can put a 1 in front of that £75 K singy13 as the cost to run the Comets this year will be in excess of £175 K with a generated income of around £115 K on the original 16 home + 16 away meetings so that is a £60 K shortfall before you turn a wheel (so this is where sponsorship would fill the gap). To cover this cost with paying customers (crowd) alone there needs to be approximately 850 fans through the door and that is at a combined rate of £12.50 per person to allow for concessions, the last two crowds were 391 for the Newcastle meeting and 497 for the Scunthorpe one so working it out on the back of a fag packet those two meetings will have cost the promotion the thick end of a £10 K loss to run over the two meetings. Also the crowd for these two meetings needs to cover the cost of the away legs where Workington performed quite well so riders wages increase because of higher points scored and there is now no contribution against rider costs from the home side as there used to be in the past.

The other irony is that the more successful you are as a club the more it costs, teams not reaching semi finals, finals and play offs will obviously lose less money, due to having less meetings, but the Catch 22 on this is if you have a poor team the crowds dwindle so you end up in a spiral of lower crowds, less money to spend on the team, so poorer league position and a cycle that can be hard to break, especially in the current adversarial environment there is between promotions, there is no reward for a successful speedway team as the more meetings you run the more you lose and the "Myth" of these finals and play off meetings generating bigger crowds is just that.

However I would expect (surely) the next two home meetings with Glasgow and Edinburgh to bring in a few more fans through the door and swell the numbers on the terraces as both clubs, like Workington; have a healthy travelling contingent who follow their team, but I very much doubt we will see the crowd break 1000 fans with a more realistic figure around the 650 to 700 maximum, but I live in hope and who knows the word may get out in Cumbria and those lost fans from the 70's, 80's and early 90's come flooding back

Regards
THJ

Well THJ i reckon after reading that depressing post of brutal reality you should change your username to THD. Total Harbinger of Doom lol.  We may as well lock the gates and call an end to the season now it would at least save Laura  some money she can ill afford to lose.

Apart from riders getting injured the only thing that gets me down when i visit Derwent Park are nights when the crowd is poor. Poor compared to what though ?, crowd levels during the Stoney years? or to the current crowd levels of most teams in the Championship. I've visited most Championship clubs this season and doubt whether many if any teams have commanded the 850 fans you state are needed to break even. So there will be more than Worky struggling.

 Speedway is going through a malaise partly self created. Its contributing insidiously to its own demise, ostrich syndrome  still appears to rule  supreme in the corridors of speedway power.

Lost fans won't come back overnight, when you have fallen out of love with something the attraction to give it another go has to be strong . Then you need to enjoy the experience and feel part of something. If we were to make the play off final and win the championship shield then that could be the catalyst. 

The sport desperately needs a really big sponsor but its unlikely to happen.  

The Comets are currently stretched beyond there means . Everyone wants an attractive winning side but the  gate receipts plus additional income from sponsorship etc ain't balancing the books. So what is the answer to the problem then THJ . 

 

 

 

[scaramanga 902]

4 hours ago, comet49 said:

I'm not too pessimistic about next season having heard from two different sources that we're running, rumours maybe, just hope they're right.

ive hear 3 different rumours about next year 

I off wich I know is wrong as I know the person linked in running it 

the 2nd I don't know personaly but know enough about them to know they wont be running it by them selves so guess that's a no go aswell 

and the other well if true good luck to them but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do take over and run it 

as much as id like to see speedway continue I don't want to see anyone hit financial trouble running it 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by scaramanga

[comet49 314]

1 hour ago, scaramanga said:

ive hear 3 different rumours about next year 

I off wich I know is wrong as I know the person linked in running it 

the 2nd I don't know personaly but know enough about them to know they wont be running it by them selves so guess that's a no go aswell 

and the other well if true good luck to them but I will be pleasantly surprised if they do take over and run it 

as much as id like to see speedway continue I don't want to see anyone hit financial trouble running it 

 

Laura did say a week or two ago that “we can’t do anything til we know about the stadium” or similar, perhaps it may be the case of someone else joining her.  I remember Hull winning the league and having to finish cos they had no stadium, sickener for their fans. As always time will tell, everything crossed. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by comet49

[Tsunami 10,219]

20 hours ago, SteelShoe said:

Well THJ i reckon after reading that depressing post of brutal reality you should change your username to THD. Total Harbinger of Doom lol.  We may as well lock the gates and call an end to the season now it would at least save Laura  some money she can ill afford to lose.

Apart from riders getting injured the only thing that gets me down when i visit Derwent Park are nights when the crowd is poor. Poor compared to what though ?, crowd levels during the Stoney years? or to the current crowd levels of most teams in the Championship. I've visited most Championship clubs this season and doubt whether many if any teams have commanded the 850 fans you state are needed to break even. So there will be more than Worky struggling.

 Speedway is going through a malaise partly self created. Its contributing insidiously to its own demise, ostrich syndrome  still appears to rule  supreme in the corridors of speedway power.

Lost fans won't come back overnight, when you have fallen out of love with something the attraction to give it another go has to be strong . Then you need to enjoy the experience and feel part of something. If we were to make the play off final and win the championship shield then that could be the catalyst. 

The sport desperately needs a really big sponsor but its unlikely to happen.  

The Comets are currently stretched beyond there means . Everyone wants an attractive winning side but the  gate receipts plus additional income from sponsorship etc ain't balancing the books. So what is the answer to the problem then THJ . 

 

 

 

Your opening gate at Derwent Park in 1999 was 4,400 when my team opened you up at the invitation of Thomas. After the early euphoria, the gates settled down to about 2200 and you had the biggest number of travelling fans, except for the early days with Newport being top dogs till they hit a slump under Tim Stone. Most Championship clubs have never seen those sort of numbers, so Workington's slump to present day is greater  by comparison.