burton1 39 Posted October 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, orion said: Why ? Les Collins and Kai Niemi used to make finals in tho's days ...it's impossible to compare Era's but is laughable to think that Woffy would not have made World les made one world final. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,988 Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, burton1 said: British riders in the 70s and 80s had the British semi final,British final,commonwealth final,overseas final and intercontinental final to try and qualify from if they managed that they had mauger and Olsen to contend with then in the 80s Nielsen and gundersen.if tai had ridden in that time I doubt he would of qualified for a world final let alone won one Not always the case.In 72 and 75 didn’t they just have the British final?And in 81 the Overseas final was at White City for instance and mainly you only had to finish in the top 10 or 11!!!Do you honestly think Tai isn’t good enough to do that? He rides more top meetings abroad than those old riders ever had to do.More in one GP season than a lot did in their wc career,so many were held in the UK Edited October 14, 2018 by iris123 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted October 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, burton1 said: les made one world final. Yea ..and ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, burton1 said: British riders in the 70s and 80s had the British semi final,British final,commonwealth final,overseas final and intercontinental final to try and qualify from if they managed that they had mauger and Olsen to contend with then in the 80s Nielsen and gundersen.if tai had ridden in that time I doubt he would of qualified for a world final let alone won one As per a previous example, Mike Lee had all those rounds, bar the Overseas Final (replaced Commonwealth in 1981) when winning the title in 1980. They all took place in the UK. You mention Olsen and Mauger, but let's look at the full picture. He also had to face the likes of Bobby Garrad (British Semi) Mike Lanham (British Final), Mel Taylor (Commonwealth) and Bent Rasmussen (Intercontinental). He also didn't beat his major rival for the title that year - Dave Jessup - once in the entirety of winning that World Championship. In contrast Woffinden has had to face all of his main rivals in 10 meetings across the season in 7 countries and has beaten them on multiple occasions to win the title. Still think it was tougher back in the day? Think again. Edited October 14, 2018 by falcace 11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, burton1 said: British riders in the 70s and 80s had the British semi final,British final,commonwealth final,overseas final and intercontinental final to try and qualify from if they managed that they had mauger and Olsen to contend with then in the 80s Nielsen and gundersen.if tai had ridden in that time I doubt he would of qualified for a world final let alone won one Right. Because the best rider in the world regularly failed to qualify for world finals. Tai is obviously nowhere near the quality of the likes of Troy Butler, Olli Tyvarrinen, Mervyn Cox, Trevor Hedge, Larry Ross etc. Chris Morton was a regular and much as he is one of my all time favourites, to say he was better than Woffy is laughable 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
George Dodds 310 Posted October 15, 2018 10 hours ago, orion said: Why ? Les Collins and Kai Niemi used to make finals in tho's days ...it's impossible to compare Era's but is laughable to think that Woffy would not have made World Finals On riding ability yes but - as with Collins at the British Final in 1978 - engine failures, a fall, lousy track conditions or annoying a belligerent referee could see you fail to qualify from any given round. No wildcards to cover your box office appeal or guarantee of qualification for the next season by finishing in the top eight of any given season. I'm sure Tai's quality would have shone through but bad luck could have robbed him of the chance of even reaching a World Final 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OveFundinFan 4,142 Posted October 15, 2018 13 hours ago, burton1 said: les made one world final. and nearly won it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinmauger 584 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: and nearly won it. Indeed he did, I recently watched the 1982 Final from LA (the Carter v Penhall one) and Les was really on it, actually taking Penhall from the back, must have been gutting to lose out in that one comparitively easier race. I read somewhere it took him ages to sort his 4V JAWA as apparently they coud be well tricky to set up and he got it running 'just so' in the qualifier, which I believe he won, before the final. Comparing competitors, in any sport, from different eras is interesting but really just for fun as ultimately it isn't resolved: different times, conditions, mindsets, equipment, venues and in speedway different competition rules: World Finals v GPs. But the cream always rises to the top so winners in one era would almost certainly be a winner in a different time.... Edited October 15, 2018 by martinmauger belated spelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,017 Posted October 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, martinmauger said: I read somehwere it took him ages to sort his 4V JAWA as apparently they coud be well tricky to set up and he got it running 'just so' in the qualifier, which I believe he won, before the final. I thought he was one of the early riders to ride the new (at the time) GM engine. Les was one of the most underrated naturally talented riders I've ever seen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, iainb said: I thought he was one of the early riders to ride the new (at the time) GM engine. Les was one of the most underrated naturally talented riders I've ever seen I thought Egon Muller was one of the first riders to use GM in 83, it was the only one in the world final that year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,017 Posted October 15, 2018 1 minute ago, MARK246 said: I thought Egon Muller was one of the first riders to use GM in 83, it was the only one in the world final that year. I'm pretty sure Les was using one at Leicester in the lead up to the 82 world final... May explain his phenomenonal form that year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MARK246 243 Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, iainb said: I'm pretty sure Les was using one at Leicester in the lead up to the 82 world final... May explain his phenomenonal form that year You could well be right just had a quick Google, 1979 the first production GM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,017 Posted October 15, 2018 Brining it back to Britain's greatest ever speedway rider for a moment... Does anybody know what's happened to the real World Championship trophy and why he's not showing it off in place of that cheap piece of tat he's been given 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,615 Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, George Dodds said: On riding ability yes but - as with Collins at the British Final in 1978 - engine failures, a fall, lousy track conditions or annoying a belligerent referee could see you fail to qualify from any given round. No wildcards to cover your box office appeal or guarantee of qualification for the next season by finishing in the top eight of any given season. I'm sure Tai's quality would have shone through but bad luck could have robbed him of the chance of even reaching a World Final When does Tai not finish in the top eight in the gp's ? .no doubt all the above you go on about could have happened in them against much stronger oppo ,,the fact is it hardly ever happens ...Woffy does not win World Championships or finish in the top eight on riding ability alone he uses common sense on when and where he needs to take risks . i Edited October 15, 2018 by orion Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burton1 39 Posted October 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, orion said: When does Tai not finish in the top eight in the gp's ? .no doubt all the above you go on about could have happened in them against much stronger oppo ,,the fact is it hardly ever happens ...Woffy does not win World Championships or finish in the top eight on riding ability alone he uses common sense on when and where he needs to take risks . Sorry but I reckon his wins have been down to having the best equipment not his riding ability,the same can be said of Hancock.crikey even cook got into the GPS this year. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites