waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 7, 2018 1 minute ago, tyler42 said: If you go back a tad had read my posts. I said that Poland was what you could compare the old 1st div with. Your argument has always been that todays league uk is far stronger than the old 1st div? The old 1st div was of the same level as The Polish extra league is now, because it had the same criteria i.e the best riders in the world competing in it. Are we getting any nearer or have i dreamed that up as well ? Polish top flight is stronger than the BL was because it has the world's best riders condensed into 8 teams. That plus the heat format means a 9pt old BL rider is more like a 7pt rider Bwitcher has never claimed the current British top flight is stronger than in the past. He has said most BL HL would drop their average under the format, which is a statistical fact . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, tyler42 said: If you go back a tad had read my posts. I said that Poland was what you could compare the old 1st div with. Your argument has always been that todays league uk is far stronger than the old 1st div? The old 1st div was of the same level as The Polish extra league is now, because it had the same criteria i.e the best riders in the world competing in it. Are we getting any nearer or have i dreamed that up as well ? is someone sugesting todays league in uk is stronger then the past? please tell me that isn't true? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, ColinMills said: yes correct....but when people say you have the best 16 in the world, just never been true No. But recent years has been very close to it. Who has been missing that could have been a contender? Or even top 8? In the world final most years you were missing someone. Olsen 76, Collins 78, Mauger 80, Gundersen 82, Lee 84, Carter 85 etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: No. But recent years has been very close to it. Who has been missing that could have been a contender? Or even top 8? In the world final most years you were missing someone. Olsen 76, Collins 78, Mauger 80, Gundersen 82, Lee 84, Carter 85 etc. Every argument they put forward is actually against them, they just don't realise it. They seem to think that because they 'enjoyed' the old system it was therefore better in every aspect. Reality is, like many, they don't like change and like things how they were. They'll also tell you that play offs are bad, who wants the excitement of a title being decided on one night, it should be over the season etc. Edited October 8, 2018 by BWitcher 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, ColinMills said: is someone sugesting todays league in uk is stronger then the past? please tell me that isn't true? No, that's just Tyler desperately trying to twist things to get out of the hole he has dug. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, BWitcher said: No, that's just Tyler desperately trying to twist things to get out of the hole he has dug. ok, think that "discussion" would of ran and ran! your last post probably correct, yes did enjoy the old system, maybe I shouldn't compare them.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ColinMills said: ok, think that "discussion" would of ran and ran! your last post probably correct, yes did enjoy the old system, maybe I shouldn't compare them.. I doubt you'll find a speedway fan who didn't enjoy the old system. Many of us enjoyed great days/nights at British Finals, Commonwealth, Overseas, World Finals etc. The reality though is, those events were beginning to die a death before the system changed. Like many I also enjoy the current one. Edited October 8, 2018 by BWitcher 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, BWitcher said: No, that's just Tyler desperately trying to twist things to get out of the hole he has dug. Funny that, because i'm still waiting for your comment earlier in the day about the world finals or are you like a politician. Just ignore the question and carry on? 6 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Reality is, like many, they don't like change and like things how they were. They'll also tell you that play offs are bad, who wants the excitement of a title being decided on one night, it should be over the season etc. Thats a bit of a contradiction is it not, to what you have been saying all night about the The strengths of the GP series are so much fairer than a one off world final!! Now you you think a one off meeting is the fairest way to decide the league championship! please make your mind up. I have enjoyed our debate. Good Night for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler42 150 Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, BWitcher said: I doubt you'll find a speedway fan who didn't enjoy the old system. Like many I also enjoy the current one. I agree wholeheartedly of what you say. at the end of the day I think we all love speedway the history and the present. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted October 8, 2018 Just now, tyler42 said: Funny that, because i'm still waiting for your comment earlier in the day about the world finals or are you like a politician. Just ignore the question and carry on? Thats a bit of a contradiction is it not, to what you have been saying all night about the The strengths of the GP series are so much fairer than a one off world final!! Now you you think a one off meeting is the fairest way to decide the league championship! please make your mind up. I have enjoyed our debate. Good Night for now. If you would actually read what posts said you might make a little more sense. Go back and read the post again, I have said nothing about what I believe is the 'fairest' way to decide a league championship. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, BWitcher said: I doubt you'll find a speedway fan who didn't enjoy the old system. Many of us enjoyed great days/nights at British Finals, Commonwealth, Overseas, World Finals etc. The reality though is, those events were beginning to die a death before the system changed. Like many I also enjoy the current one. im sure someone will know this answer to this, but why was Wembley 81 the last one there? I believe around 80,000 plus there.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted October 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, ColinMills said: im sure someone will know this answer to this, but why was Wembley 81 the last one there? I believe around 80,000 plus there.. I thought it was because of football? And they didn't want corners being dug up for a speedway track. I could be wrong. You could argue it was downhill after 81 for the world final - racing in 90 was excellent but 81 was maybe the last great world final- stadium, crowd,line-up,racing and a world champ who was clearly the best rider in the world - the full package. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,094 Posted October 8, 2018 43 minutes ago, ColinMills said: The wildcard system just does what the eastern block did...of course the eastern block were poor, but it is STILL, now to do with having certain nationalities involved. Andy Smith, bomber, just two examples, never top 16 riders.... Actually, it doesn't. The Eastern Bloc qualifiers guaranteed that a certain number (usually five) of Eastern Europeans (including some who weren't World-Final standard) would be riding in a World Final. The current GP system provides opportunities for EVERYONE to qualify via the same channels (GP, and GP Challenge). The wild cards are generally riders who are considered worthy of a place in the GP's, particularly those who deprived of a spot by misfortune (eg Dudek, Vaculik, and Zagar). They are not riders who are in purely based on the fact that they live in Eastern Europe, but that they lost their places because of injury. So, instead of basically preventing riders from qualifying, it is a second chance for riders who were unlucky. It must be true that Madsen is in because of nationality, but according to everyone (I really don't know much about him), he is more than worthy of a place. I would still have gone for Pedersen instead (and I don't like the guy), but although he may be past his best, he can still compete on the day (as we have seen), and he does add something (unlike some of the Continental qualifiers in the 70's and 80's). Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,094 Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, waiheke1 said: I thought it was because of football? And they didn't want corners being dug up for a speedway track. I could be wrong. You could argue it was downhill after 81 for the world final - racing in 90 was excellent but 81 was maybe the last great world final- stadium, crowd,line-up,racing and a world champ who was clearly the best rider in the world - the full package. I'm pretty sure that was at least a big part of it, combined with the fact that speedway was already going out of fashion... Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, waiheke1 said: I thought it was because of football? And they didn't want corners being dug up for a speedway track. I could be wrong. You could argue it was downhill after 81 for the world final - racing in 90 was excellent but 81 was maybe the last great world final- stadium, crowd,line-up,racing and a world champ who was clearly the best rider in the world - the full package. most definitely, I recall a lot of standard racing too in that meeting, but couple of Penhall rides outstanding. similar to los Angeles, again just a couple of outstanding rides, again with Penhall, but never as good as wembly. thought briggo did great commentary on that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
