mikebv 10,290 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ray c said: league should never be run by promoters independent body Never in a million years.. It's their money and they don't want anyone involved who they need to report to.. You are right by the way... No "proper" competition would ever dream about letting its own competitors make the rules up, changing them like the wind as and when it suits/doesnt suit individuals.. What we have now is all there is... Crowds are pretty much stable(ish) I would say, all be it at a low base, so it won't lose too many more fans (unless through natural causes), as they are all mainly die hards now I would suggest.. To paraphrase an old adage, "If it can't be fixed, don't try".... Rinse and repeat ad infinitum... Edited September 6, 2019 by mikebv 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 6, 2019 28 minutes ago, mikebv said: Never in a million years.. It's their money and they don't want anyone involved who they need to report to.. You are right by the way... No "proper" competition would ever dream about letting its own competitors make the rules up, changing them like the wind as and when it suits/doesnt suit individuals.. What we have now is all there is... Crowds are pretty much stable(ish) I would say, all be it at a low base, so it won't lose too many more fans (unless through natural causes), as they are all mainly die hards now I would suggest.. To paraphrase an old adage, "If it can't be fixed, don't try".... Rinse and repeat ad infinitum... To be fair, aren't American sports generally run this way? Far more professionally of course.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 6, 2019 55 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: I can see that being agreed in the bar one evening after a long day debating the options!!!!! Most of it made perfect sense, so why not tell us what you feel is wrong? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,290 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: To be fair, aren't American sports generally run this way? Far more professionally of course.. They have a much more joined up system (as you say professional), which to be honest I've always thought British Speedway should have followed.. An elected commission with no allegiances running a trade organisation of franchises.. All collectively marketing, all collectively sharing the pie that their plan delivers.. No relegation means no threat to any long term business plan and guarantees a certain amount to be budgeted for each season.. Obviously this comes with severe sanction if you let the 'brand' down and if you don't cut it then you could find yourself out of a franchise.. This aspirational business plan though obviously delivers overall organic growth.. If UK Speedway tried it, it would take a year of arguments and meetings to just agree on the name for the organisation, never mind the operating model and business plan.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,020 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, BWitcher said: Most of it made perfect sense, so why not tell us what you feel is wrong? Probably because you'll be a socially retarded cretin about it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,290 Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, iainb said: Probably because you'll be a socially retarded cretin about it Where's me Butterkist? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebrum 6,823 Posted September 6, 2019 I don’t see the need for personal name calling to make a point, just saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,020 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) I've seen this BWitcher on a number of threads acting like some kind of Perry Mason type character when he or she, I'm going for he, disagrees with something, not only that he is often very rude and insulting and would probably receive a punch in the face if he spoke to somebody like that face to face. Having recently been his latest victim on this very thread I've seen just how he twists and downright lies about what has previously been said. I'm sure he can take a bit of name calling as he can certainly dish it out. Edited September 6, 2019 by iainb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, iainb said: I've seen this BWitcher on a number of threads acting like some kind of Perry Mason type character when he or she, I'm going for he, disagrees with something, not only that he is often very rude and insulting and would probably receive a punch in the face if he spoke to somebody like that face to face. Having recently been his latest victim on this very thread I've seen just how he twists and downright lies about what has previously been said. I'm sure he can take a bit of name calling as he can certainly dish it out. There hasn't been anything to 'disagree' on. You made a claim, it was false. You were corrected by myself and others. Unable to act like an adult you've descended into hurling more and more insults with each post you make. Perhaps contribute in an adult fashion and explain why it is 'ridiculous' that one team can score more for 'drawing' than another or let the adults carry on discussing. Edited September 6, 2019 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 6, 2019 58 minutes ago, mikebv said: They have a much more joined up system (as you say professional), which to be honest I've always thought British Speedway should have followed.. An elected commission with no allegiances running a trade organisation of franchises.. All collectively marketing, all collectively sharing the pie that their plan delivers.. No relegation means no threat to any long term business plan and guarantees a certain amount to be budgeted for each season.. Obviously this comes with severe sanction if you let the 'brand' down and if you don't cut it then you could find yourself out of a franchise.. This aspirational business plan though obviously delivers overall organic growth.. If UK Speedway tried it, it would take a year of arguments and meetings to just agree on the name for the organisation, never mind the operating model and business plan.. Agree, but as I said many of the principles are the same. It is the 32 owners that vote on any rule changes for example, not an independent body. The Competition Committee who propose the rule changes aren't independent, they are all representatives of clubs. be it presidents, owners or head coaches. In essence the same as the BSPA management committee. It's just the professionalism and adaption of ideas that is the major (and of course I mean MAJOR) difference. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,020 Posted September 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Perhaps contribute in an adult fashion and explain why it is 'ridiculous' that one team can score more for 'drawing' than another or let the adults carry on discussing. You really can't see anything wrong with that statement? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, iainb said: You really can't see anything wrong with that statement? Which part? If it's the away team receiving an extra pt, absolutely not and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it. Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered. If it's the adults part, that's up to you, continue in the debate or post another inflammatory message, your choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,362 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, iainb said: You really can't see anything wrong with that statement? There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing wrong is the 2 points for winning at home for less than 6 was taken away. You say bonus points are ok. Well, just think of it as a bonus point for getting within 6 away from home. Lose by 6 the away team get a bonus point. Draw then 1 point each. Plus the bonus point for the away team. Win by up to 6. 2 points. Plus the original bonus if it is the away team. Win by over 6. 3 points plus the bonus point if it is the away team. It would be as simple as that except they took away the 2 points for the home team winning by 6 or less. It's still ok, but made more sense when it was 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,020 Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Grachan said: There's nothing wrong with it. The only thing wrong is the 2 points for winning at home for less than 6 was taken away. You say bonus points are ok. Well, just think of it as a bonus point for getting within 6 away from home. Lose by 6 the away team get a bonus point. Draw then 1 point each. Plus the bonus point for the away team. Win by up to 6. 2 points. Plus the original bonus if it is the away team. Win by over 6. 3 points plus the bonus point if it is the away team. It would be as simple as that except they took away the 2 points for the home team winning by 6 or less. It's still ok, but made more sense when it was 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. Too complicated I think, especially for a new fan, 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 1 for aggregate win. Easy, you can do it on the fingers of one hand, unless you're Nicki Pedersen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,020 Posted September 6, 2019 33 minutes ago, BWitcher said: Which part? If it's the away team receiving an extra pt, absolutely not and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it. Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered. If it's the adults part, that's up to you, continue in the debate or post another inflammatory message, your choice. and the overwhelming majority of people, speedway fans or not wouldn't bat an eyelid about it - In your opinion Just as they don't at rules and criteria in other sports, many of which have been covered - bonus points, already been discussed post another inflammatory - depends if you're going to be insulting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
