Which British League Two/National League Team Produced The Most Riders For British League One?

[steve roberts 9,246]

31 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes     Owen, Jackson, Sampson, Lawson, ( Perks was he one of the first to ever go full time without any other league experience??) were all great cover.There was always that saying of being a big fish at a lower level but all those riders were BL riders in there own right.

Yes Dave Perks (a very classy rider at Oxford for a couple of years) ignored the opportunity of plying his trade in the old Second Division (although I think that he had a few rides for Scunthorpe?) preferring to concentrate on riding in the Division One. Others who instantly come to mind were Jeremy Doncaster, Kelvin Tatum, Andy Smith, Joe Screen and Sean Wilson ( alhough he did replace Peter McNamara as Sheffield's compulsory junior in 1986 if I remember?)

[chunky 6,092]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Oxford - Simon Cross (until he 'fell out' with Ashley Pullen), John Grahame

Barrow - Joe Owen, Mark Courtenay

Sunderland - Vic Harding

Weymouth - Tony Lomas, Simon Wigg, Steve Schofield

Stoke - Steve Bastable, Brian Woodward, Martin Yeates

Scunthorpe - Phil White, Colin Cook

Workington - Mitch Graham

Reading - Mick Bell, Richard May, Bernie Leigh

Plymouth - Mike Cake, Bob Coles

Newcastle - Kenny Carter, Martin Scarisbrick

Glasgow - the McKinna Brothers

West Ham - Alan Sage, Mike Sampson, Kevin Holden

Doncaster - Doug Wyer, Reg Wilson

 

Firstly, I know it's YOUR thread, so you make the rules, but are we now including all riders who just made an appearance in the top division, rather than ones who actually established themselves at the higher level?

Secondly, you have already listed Martin Yeates as Eastbourne.

Thirdly, Kevin Holden started his career at Romford, not West Ham.

Edited April 21, 2020 by chunky

[steve roberts 9,246]

6 hours ago, chunky said:

Firstly, I know it's YOUR thread, so you make the rules, but are we now including all riders who just made an appearance in the top division, rather than ones who actually established themselves at the higher level?

Secondly, you have already listed Martin Yeates as Eastbourne.

Thirdly, Kevin Holden started his career at Romford, not West Ham.

I had removed Martin Yeates from Eastbourne however the list is subjective and I'm going from memory which is not always reliable which is why I'm constantly re-editing my original lists.

However most of the riders I listed rode at least one full season in the upper with a few exceptions. Derek Harrison for example moved up from Milton Keynes to ride full-time at King's Lynn but it only lasted for a few matches before he returned to the National League (my local team as it happens). Mike Sampson was another who moved up to Exeter full-time but reverted back to Eastbourne when things didn't work out plus Les Rumsey.

Riders who made apearances as recognise number eights there are a bundle of examples which is an altogether different criteria.

As regards riders who just made an appearance in the top divison that was a diversionary observation based on Sid's post. Of course many riders began/finished their careers in the upper league under the compulsory junior ruling which operated for three (?) seasons.

Edited April 21, 2020 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

Newport - Jim Brett

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Yes Dave Perks (a very classy rider at Oxford for a couple of years) ignored the opportunity of plying his trade in the old Second Division (although I think that he had a few rides for Scunthorpe?) preferring to concentrate on riding in the Division One. Others who instantly come to mind were Jeremy Doncaster, Kelvin Tatum, Andy Smith, Joe Screen and Sean Wilson ( alhough he did replace Peter McNamara as Sheffield's compulsory junior in 1986 if I remember?)

Others that i can remember just going straight into the BL  Rob Foy, Graves,  Eccles( useful was he a promoted junior??) 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[steve roberts 9,246]

43 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Others that i can remember just going straight into the BL  Rob Foy, Graves,  Eccles( useful was he a promoted junior??) 

Of course Mark Loram started off in the upper league as Hackney's compulsory junior and did fairly well but dropped down a league to aid development. The compulsory junior ruling was an odd one in my opinion but it did generate a few worthwhile riders who made names for themselves in the lower league. Paul Fry instantly comes to mind.

Edited April 21, 2020 by steve roberts

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

There were a few riders over the years who were not really ready for the BL even before the junior scheme came in.King's Lynn gave a few raw youngsters chances  over the years ( i.e.)  Sparshott,Dye, Framingham, Mallett Swindon- Simpson, Cross  Halifax- Westwell, Stansfield, Baker( decent) Whittaker, Oxford- Butler, Surman, Stevens,( i liked) Cradley as you said Fryer( RIP great value), Leaver,Bostin.In the old days if a top rider was out somethimes you promoted a number 8 which was a big ask but a few riders developed there careers coming through that way. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[steve roberts 9,246]

50 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

There were a few riders over the years who were not really ready for the BL even before the junior scheme came in.King's Lynn gave a few raw youngsters chances  over the years ( i.e.)  Sparshott,Dye, Framingham, Mallett Swindon- Simpson, Cross  Halifax- Westwell, Stansfield, Baker( decent) Whittaker, Oxford- Butler, Surman, Stevens,( i liked) Cradley as you said Fryer( RIP great value), Leaver,Bostin.In the old days if a top rider was out somethimes you promoted a number 8 which was a big ask but a few riders developed there careers coming through that way. 

I remember Billy Wall being thrown in at the deep end on occasions and, of course, Martin Ashby's brother, David, rode for a number of years for Swindon with very limited Second Division experience (I think he had a run out at Peterborough?)

[Sidney the robin 4,735]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

I remember Billy Wall being thrown in at the deep end on occasions and, of course, Martin Ashby's brother, David, rode for a number of years for Swindon with very limited Second Division experience (I think he had a run out at Peterborough?)

Yes remember Clark Facey, Billy Wall, Martin Hitch., Melvin Soffe, Kevin Pope, Richard Evans all getting opportunities.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[norbold 7,109]

7 hours ago, steve roberts said:

 

West Ham - Alan Sage

 

Alan Sage rode for West Ham when they were in the First Division not the Second Division.

Edited April 21, 2020 by norbold

[steve roberts 9,246]

5 minutes ago, norbold said:

Alan Sage rode for West Ham when they were in the First Division not the Second Division.

Thank for that! As I mentioned in an earlier post I'm basing my obserations on my memory...which fails all too regularly! I guess that Alan falls into that category of riders who commenced their careers in the upper league forgoing the less demanding route.

Edited April 21, 2020 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

4 hours ago, chunky said:

Firstly, I know it's YOUR thread, so you make the rules, but are we now including all riders who just made an appearance in the top division, rather than ones who actually established themselves at the higher level?

Secondly, you have already listed Martin Yeates as Eastbourne.

Thirdly, Kevin Holden started his career at Romford, not West Ham.

...as did Mike Sampson of course!

[steve roberts 9,246]

Romford - Kevin Holden & Mike Sampson

Previous entries amended accordingly.

Edited April 21, 2020 by steve roberts

[norbold 7,109]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Thank for that! As I mentioned in an earlier post I'm basing my obserations on my memory...which fails all too regularly! I guess that Alan falls into that category of riders who commenced their careers in the upper league forgoing the less demanding route.

Yes, Alan Sage made his debut with First Division West Ham in 1971 and then moved on to Ipswich. He rode four consecutive seasons without missing one single match. He then moved to Second Division Crayford and carried on the record through 1975 - 1978 completing an incredible 327 consecutive appearances in official fixtures before breaking his leg in July 1979. Even then, when he returned to the saddle mid-season in 1980, he never missed another match for Crayford; and was ever-present again for Arena Essex in ’84 and ’85 and then for Canterbury in his final season of ’86. So, in 16 seasons from 1971 to 1986 Alan was ever-present in 14 of them. An incredible record! 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by norbold

[steve roberts 9,246]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

Yes, Alan Sage made his debut with First Division West Ham in 1971 and then moved on to Ipswich. He rode four consecutive seasons without missing one single match. He then moved to Second Division Crayford and carried on the record through 1975 - 1978 completing an incredible 327 consecutive appearances in official fixtures before breaking his leg in July 1979. Even then, when he returned to the saddle mid-season in 1980, he never missed another match for Crayford; and was ever-present again for Arena Essex in ’84 and ’85 and then for Canterbury in his final season of ’86. So, in 16 seasons from 1971 to 1986 Alan was ever-present in 14 of them. An incredible record! 

 

Alan was one of those dependable riders that speedway so desperately needs.