enotian 562 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So to expand on what S4S states above... all a club has to do is say to one of these kids drop out of the draft system as we want you and will pay you double the rate and a big sign on fee to join us and where does that leave the club who has the first draft pick and wanted said "Rising Star" a system is only as fair as the "cheating bar stewards" who are in the programme allow it to be... Regards THJ Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted February 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. No draft this season but alluded to by those who have seen the full lists and 'rules' that a draft may exist when it goes to two riders per team. Fortunately all the mistakes of the previous draft systems will have been learned from, the mistakes rectified and we will see lots of even balanced and entertaining speedway over the next few years. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. Honestly We should really wait until the detail is known to be fair... But here is an educated (or not) guess! if it helps... Looking at this from the outside I believe next year for the double pick there will be a draft as alluded to so the bottom team in the league will get first pick of all available riders however the club who the RS rider has last ridden for gets "First Dibbs" on the rider they have used the previous season; So guessing at an example (and I'm sorry for keep using Leon but he is a good example of a good RS prospect) Berwick use Leon Flint all this season and his average stays about the same this year so they say we are keeping him and he stays as a 3*RS (at No6) they then bring in Archie Freeman as their 1*RS (at No7) next year; the following year 2023 if both riders stay the same RS wise Berwick have the choice to keep one of the RS riders but the other one is released for the draft pick... they do not become club assets as a RS... they become club assets once out of the RS programme... or again in the above scenario in the third year if Leon becomes a 4*RS but moves into the main body of the Berwick team with an average and Archie becomes a 2* RS they can then keep Archie (or get rid) and bring in a draft pick 2* or 1*RS as the new reserve... However Leon will still be a 4* RS rider for the top league to use... Simples.... Regards THJ Edited February 2, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn missed out key words 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted February 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly We should really wait until the detail is known to be fair... But here is an educated (or not) guess! if it helps... Looking at this from the outside I believe next year for the double pick there will be a draft as alluded to so the bottom team in the league will get first pick of all available riders however the club who the RS rider has last ridden for gets "First Dibbs" on the rider they have used the previous season; So guessing at an example (and I'm sorry for keep using Leon but he is a good example of a good RS prospect) Berwick use Leon Flint all this season and his average stays about the same this year so they say we are keeping him and he stays as a 3*RS (at No6) they then bring in Archie Freeman as their 1*RS (at No7) next year; the following year 2023 if both riders stay the same RS wise Berwick have the choice to keep one of the RS riders but the other one is released for the draft pick... they do not become club assets as a RS... they become club assets once out of the RS programme... or again in the above scenario in the third year if Leon becomes a 4*RS but moves into the main body of the Berwick team with an average and Archie becomes a 2* RS they can then keep Archie (or get rid) and bring in a draft pick 2* or 1*RS as the new reserve... However Leon will still be a 4* RS rider for the top league to use... Simples.... Regards THJ dont like the sound of that one little bit 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TotallyHonestJohn 3,078 Posted February 2, 2021 Just now, enotian said: dont like the sound of that one little bit Hey I could be totally wide of the mark but when you read between the lines of what folk are posting I will guarantee it will be something contrived as the BSPL always do that... they put so many rules and regulations into a plan to try and stop promoters manipulating the system or cheating but in the very fact that they put all these rules and guidelines in place the usual suspects usually find a way to get what they want and end up driving a bus through them... Regards THJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Hey I could be totally wide of the mark but when you read between the lines of what folk are posting I will guarantee it will be something contrived as the BSPL always do that... they put so many rules and regulations into a plan to try and stop promoters manipulating the system or cheating but in the very fact that they put all these rules and guidelines in place the usual suspects usually find a way to get what they want and end up driving a bus through them... Regards THJ It's like a metaphor for Lockdown isn't it!!! Maybe Godfrey suggested the Scotch Egg As you say we should wait for the full details. Ultimately, what ever they decide won't be the reason I'd decide not to attend but might be for some. Just like the offside rule, that many laws to make it 'fairer' to the extent that everyones forgotten what the rule is for. Hopefully the promoters remember what the reason for developing British talent is and don't ruin it with red tape and regulations. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted February 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: No Edinburgh or Plymouth? Are these teams dropping out of the Championship or are your plans to bypass the NDL? (if there is one left). As for the set money deals it wasn't so much as accepting them as the fact that nobody will stick to it, with the last draft system and the £40 limit riders at some teams were getting double that plus big sponsor deals whilst a few stuck to it and saw their draft picks struggle. we dont have to accept the draft pick from them as per the set criteria Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, HGould said: interpretation of what's been said here is that would not be a problem. Problem would be the kid could not ride at 6 or 7 s would have to be on Rising Star Programme but would have to ride in top 5? May be I've misunderstood but that's my interpretation no you understand it correctly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. draft is for 2022 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,368 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) They certainly have a way of complicating things. Edited February 3, 2021 by Fromafar 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, phillwhitewasmad said: we dont have to accept the draft pick from them as per the set criteria Ah got you so whilst its not entirely arm behind the back hypothetically if those were the only options its either accept the mileage or turn down and leave the rising star scheme making the route into the higher leagues much harder. TBH i just hope you and the boy have fun in the youth rounds and NL for a long as possible and then what will be will be. Just many talented youngsters fail to make the next steps successfully and are quickly forgotten about. Not saying one way or another about Luke as his destiny rests in his/your hands for now. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted February 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: Ah got you so whilst its not entirely arm behind the back hypothetically if those were the only options its either accept the mileage or turn down and leave the rising star scheme making the route into the higher leagues much harder. TBH i just hope you and the boy have fun in the youth rounds and NL for a long as possible and then what will be will be. Just many talented youngsters fail to make the next steps successfully and are quickly forgotten about. Not saying one way or another about Luke as his destiny rests in his/your hands for now. fun is the main thing its a journey we are enjoying and if it happens it happens and if it dosent then so be it . its only speedway at the end of the day 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzac 1,015 Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said: draft is for 2022 Won't happen, speedway riders have always wanted to ride where they want to. Asset system, meant nothing if the rider didn't want to ride for the parent club, can't see this being any different. Edited February 2, 2021 by gazzac 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phillwhitewasmad 1,487 Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, gazzac said: Won't happen, speedway riders have always wanted to ride where they want to. Asset system, meant nothing if the rider didn't want to ride for the parent club, can't see this being any different. Unfortunately you may be right there but only time will tell. Personally I hope it does work and the full 5 years are seen out 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,368 Posted February 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Unfortunately you may be right there but only time will tell. Personally I hope it does work and the full 5 years are seen out You will get good odds on that happening.Don’t think you can plan that far ahead in a sport like Speedway.IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
