cinderfella 865 Posted May 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: Is 6 man teams the way to go ? How about 8 man teams with 7&8 being NDL standard riders who have not ridden in the main body of a PL or CL team. Change the heat format and have 4 heats where the 7s & 8s only ride against each other with a start from each gate position. The present 15ht system is flawed. Ht 15 is where the top 2 scorers from each team should face each other but how often does that not happen because either the match has already been decided or a (top) rider insists he gets the ride despite having scored poorly in his programmed rides? Things need sorted but only the powerless fans seem to see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePark 2,783 Posted May 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, cinderfella said: How about 8 man teams with 7&8 being NDL standard riders who have not ridden in the main body of a PL or CL team. Change the heat format and have 4 heats where the 7s & 8s only ride against each other with a start from each gate position. The present 15ht system is flawed. Ht 15 is where the top 2 scorers from each team should face each other but how often does that not happen because either the match has already been decided or a (top) rider insists he gets the ride despite having scored poorly in his programmed rides? Things need sorted but only the powerless fans seem to see that. Did they not do this in 1993? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinderfella 865 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, StevePark said: Did they not do this in 1993? Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders Heats 16, 17, & 18 were also for 5th & 6th, 3rd & 4th and top two scorers from each team. Edited May 13, 2022 by cinderfella 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, cinderfella said: Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders And were 2nd Div standard riders not 3rd tier... The Championship seriously needs to be the stepping stone between Div 1 and 3 with the team strengths spread out accordingly and evenly... How they do that after many years of running teams made up of the Div 1 HL's I dont know... Can't charge circa £20 for a lower standard of product can they? And I would imagine they will be loathe to drop the admission price.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, cinderfella said: Certainly had 8 men teams but I think 7 & 8 rode against the other riders What happens if a reserve (7 or 8) gets injured, do you name a no.9 or just have 3 rider races? Good idea, thinking outside the box, but that is another problem with that format. Edited May 13, 2022 by ruffdiamond Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinderfella 865 Posted May 13, 2022 1 minute ago, ruffdiamond said: What happens if a reserve (7 or 8) gets injured, do you name a no.9 or just have 3 rider races? Seem to recall back in 1993 there was the facility for a No 9. Gets messy I know. Maybe competitive 2nd halves should be brought back. How about the old 'rider of the night' finals but with cumulative points carried forward to the end of the season and the winner getting a new bike or something? Add a bit of interest with away riders scoring double or extra points perhaps? Just an idea to make things interesting 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted May 13, 2022 Maybe the jump from NDL to CL is like the old jump from NNL to GBL,,, maybe going back to 2 leagues would be better. You might not be able to accommodate the worlds best, but let's face it, there ain't many around these shores anyway. There could maybe be room for amatuer junior teams to, remember the Felton Flyers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinderfella 865 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: Maybe the jump from NDL to CL is like the old jump from NNL to GBL,,, maybe going back to 2 leagues would be better. You might not be able to accommodate the worlds best, but let's face it, there ain't many around these shores anyway. There could maybe be room for amatuer junior teams to, remember the Felton Flyers? Do we need the World's best? British Speedway already operates without, arguably, without it's current best three riders. I've suggested for years that the GP series killed British Speedway. Ask Eastbourne and Arena fans or any of the other teams that had to do without their star riders on GP weekends. Increase the number of GP rounds to 24 or similar like F1 and the top 15 riders plus a Wild Card can compete solely for the World Crown without league speedway getting in the way of their ambitions. League speedway can then be for loyal riders and fans. Edited May 13, 2022 by cinderfella 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HGould 2,213 Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, IronScorpion said: If you are going to make a post, look(troll) back & find some truths! In 2018, CHAPMAN was still the CHAIRMAN & GODFREY his VICE. http://scunthorpe-speedway.com/?p=8003 We did lose S Worrall early season but he DID come back late July, early August so NOT ALL season. Brexit was happening but we were ill prepared as our Prime Minister jumped ship & left a clown in charge. Hindsight is wonderful for the limit on top 3 heat leaders but it was a rule touted years ago but never implemented(plenty of riders back then. Is 6 man teams the way to go with unattatched riders as guests? Name an instance where the "cartel" has used influence? BUT, I do agree with an Independent Body(ex promoters, referees, riders). The SCB & BSP Ltd are separate committees. As VC to Buster until late 2018,, was Mr Godfrey not effectively Chairman in all but name of CL under longstanding protocol that each of the 2 top leagues would not interfere in each others affairs. Have Plymouth and Birmingham not been denied signings this season by MC? Is it not the case that 2 Members of the BSPL MC are also on the SCB MC together with an ex BSPL Promoter thus ensuring overall control of SCB MC? I'm happy to be corrected on that if wrong. Is it not 100% the case that in 2018 on a number of occasions that Lakeside and Workington had matches called off at 3 to 4 days notice by MC due to lack of availability of Guests. Especially Lakeside and always on Fridays when Scunthorpe needed a Guest? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fortythirtyeight 841 Posted May 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, HGould said: As VC to Buster until late 2018,, was Mr Godfrey not effectively Chairman in all but name of CL under longstanding protocol that each of the 2 top leagues would not interfere in each others affairs. Have Plymouth and Birmingham not been denied signings this season by MC? Is it not the case that 2 Members of the BSPL MC are also on the SCB MC together with an ex BSPL Promoter thus ensuring overall control of SCB MC? I'm happy to be corrected on that if wrong. Is it not 100% the case that in 2018 on a number of occasions that Lakeside and Workington had matches called off at 3 to 4 days notice by MC due to lack of availability of Guests. Especially Lakeside and always on Fridays when Scunthorpe needed a Guest? In 2018 Godfrey was Vice Chairman, so no he was not in charge and no there was no such protocol of not interfering with each other’s affairs. Lakeside, as I have pointed out on many occasions, we’re never ever granted Fridays as their PRIMARY race night for just that reason, not enough riders would be available. the ‘ MC’ do not call matches off because of lack of guests, that is a club matter. Otherwise, your not far off. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cinderfella 865 Posted May 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: In 2018 Godfrey was Vice Chairman, so no he was not in charge and no there was no such protocol of not interfering with each other’s affairs. Lakeside, as I have pointed out on many occasions, we’re never ever granted Fridays as their PRIMARY race night for just that reason, not enough riders would be available. the ‘ MC’ do not call matches off because of lack of guests, that is a club matter. Otherwise, your not far off. Isn't ironic that now the PL run on two evenings (dictated by the Poles I'll argue) and fans rarely have consecutive home meetings on the same evening. And some PL teams have had to changed their race days to accommodate the availability of the same riders because of doubling up. Sorry for the cracked record but it's time British Speedway was run for the benefit of British riders and fans by an independent admin. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lbw 869 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) @Fortythirtyeight With reference to our intellectual exchange yesterday. The word 'wot' is actually in the dictionary so you had better educate yourself before you comment on my use of the English language! Now you do know! Wot Wot Edited May 13, 2022 by Turnip 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,395 Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, cinderfella said: Do we need the World's best? British Speedway already operates without, arguably, without it's current best three riders. I've suggested for years that the GP series killed British Speedway. Ask Eastbourne and Arena fans or any of the other teams that had to do without their star riders on GP weekends. Increase the number of GP rounds to 24 or similar like F1 and the top 15 riders plus a Wild Card can compete solely for the World Crown without league speedway getting in the way of their ambitions. League speedway can then be for loyal riders and fans. no we don't need them, we can organise a league structure without them; we have to in reality. I think you're spot on with your comments. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enotian 562 Posted May 13, 2022 7 hours ago, mikebv said: And were 2nd Div standard riders not 3rd tier... The Championship seriously needs to be the stepping stone between Div 1 and 3 with the team strengths spread out accordingly and evenly... How they do that after many years of running teams made up of the Div 1 HL's I dont know... Can't charge circa £20 for a lower standard of product can they? And I would imagine they will be loathe to drop the admission price.. And that's the dilemma. Pandora's box was opened and now nobody can close it. I would say you could reduce the standard of the 2nd tier such that the costs are reduced to make it possible to reduce admission fees and use it as a marketing tool to attract lapsed supporters or retain those struggling in the current climate. The 2nd Tier should be about developing young British riders (who could double up to increase their track time) so they have the experience of leading a team against more experienced riders who only ride in the UK and don't double up. But that's your problem. What happens to the current double up riders? Who subsidises their income if they no longer have 2nd Tier matches? It would seem obvious that they'll ask for more. Can the top tier afford that? I doubt it. So how do you replace the number of matches the current double uppers earn from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruffdiamond 6,115 Posted May 13, 2022 56 minutes ago, enotian said: And that's the dilemma. Pandora's box was opened and now nobody can close it. I would say you could reduce the standard of the 2nd tier such that the costs are reduced to make it possible to reduce admission fees and use it as a marketing tool to attract lapsed supporters or retain those struggling in the current climate. The 2nd Tier should be about developing young British riders (who could double up to increase their track time) so they have the experience of leading a team against more experienced riders who only ride in the UK and don't double up. But that's your problem. What happens to the current double up riders? Who subsidises their income if they no longer have 2nd Tier matches? It would seem obvious that they'll ask for more. Can the top tier afford that? I doubt it. So how do you replace the number of matches the current double uppers earn from? It's a right old can of worms, isn't it?,,, suppose it takes diversity to the limit,,, you can't do right for doing wrong, and you can't be wrong, cos that's not diverse enough!!!,,, why not just have imaginary goalposts and make it up as it goes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites