Peter Collins Book

[JC! 142]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

Depends what your interpretaion is of legends? To quote PC the likes of Ken Eyre and Eric Broadbelt would be regarded as "legends" in the eyes of some fans having been part of the successful "Aces" triple winners in the early seventies. The remaining members other than PC are no longer with us.

Personally I think a "little lad" meeting any rider past or present would hopefully ignite some interest...totally different, I know, but I recall the days when riders were allowed to take children round on their bikes before H&S put a stop to that. Any interaction can only be a positive thing in my view.

...as an earlier post of mine initiated, taking Oxford as an example, there are only a few of the "Cheetahs" from your chosen year (1979) that live locally so the chance of visiting Cowley would be in the minority. As was/is the case with most teams whereby riders rarely live/lived close to their local track (even fewer now with the reliance on "foreign" imports) so, again, I don't see it as issue.

Of the '79 vintage George Hunter is no longer with us. Les Rumsey resides in Kent, Carl Askew in Aussie, John Hack Manchester, John Barker and Colin Ackroyd (both Eastbourne to my knowledge) the unfortunate Pip Lamb (the midlands) who use to get rousing receptions when he visited, Mick Handley the midlands. Therefore to re-iterate few would make regular visits to Oxford.

When the great Oxford sides of 1985/86 were invited to attend Cowley in 2005(?) under the Wagstaff banner they got a great reception but that was a "one-off" occasion.

To repeat, again, the initiative was for past team members and not a "horses for courses" policy.

No, it doesn't depend what my interpretation is, it's up to the individual business owner who the feel would bring, say, minimum of the £20 entry fee worth of value by their presence. But you knew that I guess.

I would hazard a guess that letting a TikTok/ social media influencer in for free would generate more financial value, but that wouldn't fit the narrative  would it? Let's keep talking about the 'good old days'

No need to keep repeating yourself, everyone knows that it is past team members (former self employed workers under previous owners).

[steve roberts 9,246]

21 minutes ago, JC! said:

No, it doesn't depend what my interpretation is, it's up to the individual business owner who the feel would bring, say, minimum of the £20 entry fee worth of value by their presence. But you knew that I guess.

I would hazard a guess that letting a TikTok/ social media influencer in for free would generate more financial value, but that wouldn't fit the narrative  would it? Let's keep talking about the 'good old days'

No need to keep repeating yourself, everyone knows that it is past team members (former self employed workers under previous owners).

...well the narrative on the forum is always that it's "oldies" who attend speedway so why not engage with them? I knew someone who hadn't been to speedway for years but word got out that Arne Pander was to make an appearance at Cowley and he went along to acknowledge his hero from the past and liked what he saw and became "hooked" all over again. Trying to attract a younger audience is another problem and requires a different mandate and which has been discussed time and again and there's no quick fix unfortunatey...and yes we know that it's past team members but a previous post that instigated this debate appeared to refer things were somewhat different? Just correcting that little observation to make it clear.

Edited January 12, 2023 by steve roberts

[topaz325 1,859]

Only started reading the book that covers Peters early life and he certainly packed a lot into his childhood and youth, also how close he was with other guys from an early age who would go on to race Speedway, Chris and Dave Morton, Dave Trownson, Andy Reid (or  am I mixing up with another Andy Reid) and later Graham Drury.

[JC! 142]

10 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...well the narrative on the forum is always that it's "oldies" who attend speedway so why not engage with them? Trying to attract a younger audience is another problem and requires a different mandate and which has been discussed time and again and there's no quick fix unfortunatey...and yes we know that it's past team members but a previous post that instigated this debate appeared to refer things were somewhat different? Just correcting that little observation to make it clear.

Clearly your argument is emotional rather than based in any form of business logic, so best just agree to disagree.

 

[steve roberts 9,246]

2 hours ago, JC! said:

Clearly your argument is emotional rather than based in any form of business logic, so best just agree to disagree.

 

I'd agree to disagree also but I would be interested to hear from Swindon Fans how popular the 'Legends Lounge' was and whether it attracted people to the speedway who otherwise wouldn't attend if only to chew the fat with ex"Budgies"?

[steve roberts 9,246]

2 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Only started reading the book that covers Peters early life and he certainly packed a lot into his childhood and youth, also how close he was with other guys from an early age who would go on to race Speedway, Chris and Dave Morton, Dave Trownson, Andy Reid (or  am I mixing up with another Andy Reid) and later Graham Drury.

Remember Graham Drury as a "Cheetah" and not being able to team ride to save his life! I recall he spoke on the microphone in 1983 trying to convince fans that moving up was the wrong way to go (Norther Sports and 1984...the rest is history) but I guess it was more a personal thing with him because he realised that he wasn't part of the bigger picture. However he successfully sued the promotion for breach of contract but I would imagine that Northern Sports didn't lose much sleep over that little incident?

[topaz325 1,859]

3 hours ago, topaz325 said:

Only started reading the book that covers Peters early life and he certainly packed a lot into his childhood and youth, also how close he was with other guys from an early age who would go on to race Speedway, Chris and Dave Morton, Dave Trownson, Andy Reid (or  am I mixing up with another Andy Reid) and later Graham Drury.

Just checked , yes its the same Andy Reid I remember , Worky 1977 (a year before my time) and Glasgow among others.

[topaz325 1,859]

30 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Remember Graham Drury as a "Cheetah" and not being able to team ride to save his life! I recall he spoke on the microphone in 1983 trying to convince fans that moving up was the wrong way to go (Norther Sports and 1984...the rest is history) but I guess it was more a personal thing with him because he realised that he wasn't part of the bigger picture. However he successfully sued the promotion for breach of contract but I would imagine that Northern Sports didn't lose much sleep over that little incident?

In the Star this week piece on Graham Drury doing a talk and question and answer session in aid of Birmingham Speedway supporters club, it also mentions the court case.

[steve roberts 9,246]

7 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

In the Star this week piece on Graham Drury doing a talk and question and answer session in aid of Birmingham Speedway supporters club, it also mentions the court case.

That'll be interesting? Would be a good initiative for the more forward thinking promotions allowing riders access to the stadium free if in return the rider was happy to give a talk after the meeting? Obviously there are some riders who would find public speaking difficult (don't many of us?) but I'm sure some would be happy to do so given the right incentive. I thoroughly enjoyed the interviews that Lee Ashby carried out on line with former riders although I would have pressed some of the riders more with their answers to some of the questions...John Davis in particular!

[spiegal 294]

4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

That'll be interesting? Would be a good initiative for the more forward thinking promotions allowing riders access to the stadium free if in return the rider was happy to give a talk after the meeting? Obviously there are some riders who would find public speaking difficult (don't many of us?) but I'm sure some would be happy to do so given the right incentive. I thoroughly enjoyed the interviews that Lee Ashby carried out on line with former riders although I would have pressed some of the riders more with their answers to some of the questions...John Davis in particular!

Don't be silly...that's called "promoting"....that's a word I would doubt ever appears in anything coming out of Rugby.

[steve roberts 9,246]

28 minutes ago, topaz325 said:

Just checked , yes its the same Andy Reid I remember , Worky 1977 (a year before my time) and Glasgow among others.

Recall he rode for Cradley in 1984 (?)

[topaz325 1,859]

1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Recall he rode for Cradley in 1984 (?)

21.01.1957, Partington, England

British Clubs:

Crewe (1974)
Scunthorpe (1974)
Barrow (1974, 1978)
Ellesmere Port (1975)
Stoke (1976)
Workington (1977)
Glasgow (1979-1981, 1983-1986)
Cradley (1980, 1982-1984)

[steve roberts 9,246]

7 minutes ago, spiegal said:

Don't be silly...that's called "promoting"....that's a word I would doubt ever appears in anything coming out of Rugby.

Although Nigel Wagstaff wasn't everybody's cup of tea he would often hold a post meeting question & answer session with a couple of riders and throwing it open to the public to join in.

[TonyMac 720]

4 hours ago, JC! said:

Clearly your argument is emotional rather than based in any form of business logic, so best just agree to disagree.

 

How is failing to make former favourites welcome logical or sound business practice? On the contrary.

It's obvious that that vast majority of ex-riders wouldn't pay to get in anyway, so the promoters would lose nothing financially.

But then consider the potential positives from their presence on race night  . . .

As Steve has previously tried to explain, there is anecdotal evidence that a number of supporters, both existing and past, enjoy meeting up with old faces who remind them of their younger days and a better time for speedway. Let's face it, too many speedway meetings drag on so long these days that a friendly chat with an ex-rider will often be the highlight of that fan's night.

If he or she leaves the stadium feeling good, or at least believing that their time and money showed some tangible reward, then they are more likely to return.

Think of the goodwill factor, too. Does it do any speedway promoter good to make ex-riders even slightly unwelcome or made to feel like parasites? If a track's legends and former favourites help spread the word about their local former track it can possibly lead to newer fans coming along - and help to keep some who are in despair and thinking of abandoning the sport. Imagine the fan's thought process: "I can't really be bothered go to (insert track name) tonight, its cold and damp, I'll be waiting around for ages between heats, fuel and admission costs have gone up . . . but, then again, I KNOW I'll enjoy meeting and speaking to my old heroes, so, sod it, I'll go." 

Whether you agree with PC's stance on passes or not (he and I don't agree on everything he has written about every subject in the book), it doesn't do Belle Vue or any other track any good to have this perpetual public debate. It's a needless negative for the best racetrack in the UK where, by general consensus, average crowd figures for domestic meetings were poor last season in relation to the success achieved by the Aces. I'm not suggesting that letting 20 ex-riders into the NSS every home meeting will make much difference to the paying attendance, but it certainly won't do any harm.

Some promoters 'get it' (Berwick gave Craig Pendlebury a life-long stadium pass even though he rode so little for them) but they all need to dig their heads out of the sand on this and many other issues.

British speedway needs all the goodwill it can possible muster. It should look at the bigger picture.
 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by TonyMac

[JC! 142]

1 hour ago, TonyMac said:

How is failing to make former favourites welcome logical or sound business practice? On the contrary.

It's obvious that that vast majority of ex-riders wouldn't pay to get in anyway, so the promoters would lose nothing financially.

But then consider the potential positives from their presence on race night  . . .

As Steve has previously tried to explain, there is anecdotal evidence that a number of supporters, both existing and past, enjoy meeting up with old faces who remind them of their younger days and a better time for speedway. Let's face it, too many speedway meetings drag on so long these days that a friendly chat with an ex-rider will often be the highlight of that fan's night.

If he or she leaves the stadium feeling good, or at least believing that their time and money showed some tangible reward, then they are more likely to return.

Think of the goodwill factor, too. Does it do any speedway promoter good to make ex-riders even slightly unwelcome or made to feel like parasites? If a track's legends and former favourites help spread the word about their local former track it can possibly lead to newer fans coming along - and help to keep some who are in despair and thinking of abandoning the sport. Imagine the fan's thought process: "I can't really be bothered go to (insert track name) tonight, its cold and damp, I'll be waiting around for ages between heats, fuel and admission costs have gone up . . . but, then again, I KNOW I'll enjoy meeting and speaking to my old heroes, so, sod it, I'll go." 

Whether you agree with PC's stance on passes or not (he and I don't agree on everything he has written about every subject in the book), it doesn't do Belle Vue or any other track any good to have this perpetual public debate. It's a needless negative for the best racetrack in the UK where, by general consensus, average crowd figures for domestic meetings were poor last season in relation to the success achieved by the Aces. I'm not suggesting that letting 20 ex-riders into the NSS every home meeting will make much difference to the paying attendance, but it certainly won't do any harm.

Some promoters 'get it' (Berwick gave Craig Pendlebury a life-long stadium pass even though he rode so little for them) but they all need to dig their heads out of the sand on this and many other issues.

British speedway needs all the goodwill it can possible muster. It should look at the bigger picture.
 

 

Anecdotal evidence , you can get someone out there to agree to pretty much anything. Lots and lots of highly emotional words, all your own (highly subjective) opinion stated as fact. 

If you need goodwill maybe invite injured forces personnel for free, that or one of a dozen other ideas. They don't fit with your distorted view, you say 'how is failing to make former riders welcome logical or good business practice', no-one that I can see said not to make them welcome - just that they shouldn't automatically be allowed in free. 

Sadly it's quite transparent that you are not basing your opinion on running a business profitably through any form of meaningful research, how do I know that - 'anecdotal evidence'. Or, alternatively, you are unconsciously biased as you may have a business thats lifeblood is keeping these old memories alive.

Edited January 12, 2023 by JC!