Peter Collins Book

[steve roberts 9,247]

32 minutes ago, chunky said:

Why don't you write one yourself?

...now there's a thought? I did submit some articles to the "Cheetahs Chronicle" many years ago. My uncle, who was the Oxford Track Photographer, published three books containing many of the images he took during the middle seventies.

[fatface 2,571]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:28 AM, JC! said:

I would hazard a guess that letting a TikTok/ social media influencer in for free would generate more financial value, but that wouldn't fit the narrative  would it? Let's keep talking about the 'good old days'

No need to keep repeating yourself, everyone knows that it is past team members (former self employed workers under previous owners).

You know, that' not a bad idea and that's why it will never happen in speedway. The sport is run like a failing pub that panders to its shrinking hardcore regulars.

Unfortunately, the sport's core following is those who bemoan its demise, whilst decrying anything that would take into the modern day. The experience of going to speedway in the UK is pretty much the same as it was in the 70s and 80s, that's why it can't reach new audiences and the few who do attend are broadly 50+ and were around then. Cricket, rugby, horse racing, netball, boxing have all upped their game, moved with the times and replenished their crowds. Speedway has not...and worse, will not.

[steve roberts 9,247]

3 minutes ago, falcace said:

You know, that' not a bad idea and that's why it will never happen in speedway. The sport is run like a failing pub that panders to its shrinking hardcore regulars.

Unfortunately, the sport's core following is those who bemoan its demise, whilst decrying anything that would take into the modern day. The experience of going to speedway in the UK is pretty much the same as it was in the 70s and 80s, that's why it can't reach new audiences and the few who do attend are broadly 50+ and were around then. Cricket, rugby, horse racing, netball, boxing have all upped their game, moved with the times and replenished their crowds. Speedway has not...and worse, will not.

If TikTok (whatever that is?) encourages new fans to the sport that's okay with me. Getting back to free passes it's funny that ex-ACU referees who apparently can enter any track as a "freebie" doesn't attract the same sort of reaction from posters as ex-riders appear to do?

[JC! 142]

29 minutes ago, falcace said:

You know, that' not a bad idea and that's why it will never happen in speedway. The sport is run like a failing pub that panders to its shrinking hardcore regulars.

Unfortunately, the sport's core following is those who bemoan its demise, whilst decrying anything that would take into the modern day. The experience of going to speedway in the UK is pretty much the same as it was in the 70s and 80s, that's why it can't reach new audiences and the few who do attend are broadly 50+ and were around then. Cricket, rugby, horse racing, netball, boxing have all upped their game, moved with the times and replenished their crowds. Speedway has not...and worse, will not.

Yes totally agree - I went to the cricket at Chelmsford for a 50 over match in September. It was a match with nothing riding on it and started during working hours (2pm) - several thousand in attendance. Good facilities, players accessible for signing autographs etc, picnics on pitch between innings, £15, plenty of the 'grey pound' being spent there.

I took my kids to see 'you tubers' boxing on Saturday, thought when I got tickets for them for Xmas 'who will want to go to see that?'. Turns out it was a 13,000 full house, with many unable to get tickets.

[fatface 2,571]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

If TikTok (whatever that is?) encourages new fans to the sport that's okay with me. Getting back to free passes it's funny that ex-ACU referees who apparently can enter any track as a "freebie" doesn't attract the same sort of reaction from posters as ex-riders appear to do?

I apologise for not being on here every day to respond to every miniscule point. I've got priorities Steve! 

You'll have to look to different posters for that level of commitment (or lack of?). Seems like a fair point that paid referees shouldn't get free access. Was that in PC's book? Or not?  Steve, your posts are generally good, courteous and constructive. But you are misguided on this one. No business can plausibly give free lifetime access to former employees. Furthermore, have one of those well-paid employees (sporting legend or not) have the say-so on who gets free passes. 

1 hour ago, JC! said:

Yes totally agree - I went to the cricket at Chelmsford for a 50 over match in September. It was a match with nothing riding on it and started during working hours (2pm) - several thousand in attendance. Good facilities, players accessible for signing autographs etc, picnics on pitch between innings, £15, plenty of the 'grey pound' being spent there.

I took my kids to see 'you tubers' boxing on Saturday, thought when I got tickets for them for Xmas 'who will want to go to see that?'. Turns out it was a 13,000 full house, with many unable to get tickets.

...and I wonder how many turned up on the off-chance of meeting a journeyman county cricketer or boxer from the 1970s? Sports that never would have been considered as competitors to speedway 30-40 years ago have moved so far ahead of the sport its probably beyond retrieveable. You can add women's football, darts, MMA to the list too.

[steve roberts 9,247]

10 minutes ago, falcace said:

I apologise for not being on here every day to respond to every miniscule point. I've got priorities Steve! 

You'll have to look to different posters for that level of commitment (or lack of?). Seems like a fair point that paid referees shouldn't get free access. Was that in PC's book? Or not?  Steve, your posts are generally good, courteous and constructive. But you are misguided on this one. No business can plausibly give free lifetime access to former employees. Furthermore, have one of those well-paid employees (sporting legend or not) have the say-so on who gets free passes. 

...and I wonder how many turned up on the off-chance of meeting a journeyman county cricketer or boxer from the 1970s? Sports that never would have been considered as competitors to speedway 30-40 years ago have moved so far ahead of the sport its probably beyond retrieveable. You can add women's football, darts, MMA to the list too.

Yes it was in PC's book and seems strange to me that there is an anomaly/inconsistancy as regards issue of passes?

I've done a bit of promotion and in fact gave some talks/presentations at schools but I was let down as regards support. Steve Purchase (one-time promoter at Oxford) even invited me along to a pre-season discussion to hopefully come up with ideas to help promote the sport to the uninitiated. I even gave out leaflets at a local Tesco's branch but who's to say that sort of self-promotion actually achieves anything?...fortunately there's better people out there as I have no quick fix answers as regards getting the sport noticed!

Edited January 17, 2023 by steve roberts

[fatface 2,571]

15 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Yes it was in PC's book and seems strange to me that there is an anomaly/inconsistancy as regards issue of passes?

I've done a bit of promotion and in fact gave some talks/presentations at schools but I was let down as regards support. Steve Purchase (one-time promoter at Oxford) even invited me along to a pre-season discussion to hopefully come up with ideas to help promote the sport to the uninitiated. I even gave out leaflets at a local Tesco's branch but who's to say that sort of self-promotion actually achieves anything?...fortunately there's better people out there as I have no quick fix answers as regards getting the sport noticed!

I think it goes deeper than marketing. We have to be really honest and say the overall product isn't up to the mark. And I don't mean the racing, I think the pure sport is actually pretty good compared with some more successful sports. Then again, I am biased.  I mean the overall experience of going to speedway in the UK. Catering, spectator facilities, entertainment, crowd interaction, presentation..its all light years behind what other sports and other attractions offer in 2023.

I'm sure there's plenty on here like me that have had that awful uncomfortable experience of taking newbies to speedway and seeing it through their eyes. All the things you have come to accept - dirty terraces, bars in portakabins, poor presentation, standing around waiting between races - is so very dated to people outside the sport.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

I think it goes deeper than marketing. We have to be really honest and say the overall product isn't up to the mark. And I don't mean the racing, I think the pure sport is actually pretty good compared with some more successful sports. Then again, I am biased.  I mean the overall experience of going to speedway in the UK. Catering, spectator facilities, entertainment, crowd interaction, presentation..its all light years behind what other sports and other attractions offer in 2023.

I'm sure there's plenty on here like me that have had that awful uncomfortable experience of taking newbies to speedway and seeing it through their eyes. All the things you have come to accept - dirty terraces, bars in portakabins, poor presentation, standing around waiting between races - is so very dated to people outside the sport.

I have often thought speedway's problem is admission prices, but I have just looked at Sothend United (National League) and it is about the same as speedway admission prices. Southend used to be a regular division 3 team, but have slipped over the years. The facilities in the stadium are not great and it's a tired stadium these days. Not helpful, I know, but I don't know what speedway needs to do to get 'bums on seats'. Southend get around 5,000 fans. 

[Fromafar 10,416]

2 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

I have often thought speedway's problem is admission prices, but I have just looked at Sothend United (National League) and it is about the same as speedway admission prices. Southend used to be a regular division 3 team, but have slipped over the years. The facilities in the stadium are not great and it's a tired stadium these days. Not helpful, I know, but I don't know what speedway needs to do to get 'bums on seats'. Southend get around 5,000 fans. 

The “credibility “of the sport as a serious Competition is the biggest problem.IMO.

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

47 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

The “credibility “of the sport as a serious Competition is the biggest problem.IMO.

Credibility, I'm not sure what that means in speedway? The races, surely, aren't rigged? I know there are team member issues, i.e. the over use of guests, is that what you mean?  

[Fromafar 10,416]

2 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

Credibility, I'm not sure what that means in speedway? The races, surely, aren't rigged? I know there are team member issues, i.e. the over use of guests, is that what you mean?  

Mainly the use of guests and manipulating the rules to suit at times.Winning trophy’s means nothing in the the sport.

[fatface 2,571]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

The “credibility “of the sport as a serious Competition is the biggest problem.IMO.

WWE is hardly dripping with credibility.

I am being a tad facetious of course. I accept speedway's lack of credibility is an issue. But its not the biggest issue. If you had a time machine and brought 70s and 80s British Speedway back to the modern day and presented that to a 2023 audience, it would still be badly struggling.  

[steve roberts 9,247]

5 hours ago, falcace said:

I think it goes deeper than marketing. We have to be really honest and say the overall product isn't up to the mark. And I don't mean the racing, I think the pure sport is actually pretty good compared with some more successful sports. Then again, I am biased.  I mean the overall experience of going to speedway in the UK. Catering, spectator facilities, entertainment, crowd interaction, presentation..its all light years behind what other sports and other attractions offer in 2023.

I'm sure there's plenty on here like me that have had that awful uncomfortable experience of taking newbies to speedway and seeing it through their eyes. All the things you have come to accept - dirty terraces, bars in portakabins, poor presentation, standing around waiting between races - is so very dated to people outside the sport.

I would generally agree...15 heats of racing isn't really acceptable in my opinion. However the biggest problem with speedway is that many promotions just lease the stadium and have no real control as regards the lack of facilities. Take catering for example. I learnt thru' Steve Purchase (nice bloke by the way) that all catering and bar sales went to the the stadium owners and he didn't see a penny. Many promoters have their hands tied and in a perfect world they would own the stadium in which they operated from and everyone would benefit? As a matter of interest how many stadiums are actually owned by the speedway promotion in this country? Buster Chapman comes to mind...any others out there?

[Ray Stadia 1,071]

15 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I would generally agree...15 heats of racing isn't really acceptable in my opinion. However the biggest problem with speedway is that many promotions just lease the stadium and have no real control as regards the lack of facilities. Take catering for example. I learnt thru' Steve Purchase (nice bloke by the way) that all catering and bar sales went to the the stadium owners and he didn't see a penny. Many promoters have their hands tied and in a perfect world they would own the stadium in which they operated from and everyone would benefit? As a matter of interest how many stadiums are actually owned by the speedway promotion in this country? Buster Chapman comes to mind...any others out there?

Personally, I don't think it matters whether a promoter owns or rents a stadium. If the promotion is a success, the stadium owner will be happy to co-operate with updating facilities, so long as the promoter is able to assist with the costs, which he/she would be prepared to, if the crowds were good. Even when speedway has had promoters who own stadiums, things haven't always worked out, for one reason or another, Cradley, Coventry, Arena Essex (successful stock cars), Weymouth, Newport, possibly Stoke?, possibly Somerset?. The Duggan family own Eastbourne, but that doesn't seem to be helping speedway to run there. 

[steve roberts 9,247]

1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said:

Personally, I don't think it matters whether a promoter owns or rents a stadium. If the promotion is a success, the stadium owner will be happy to co-operate with updating facilities, so long as the promoter is able to assist with the costs, which he/she would be prepared to, if the crowds were good. Even when speedway has had promoters who own stadiums, things haven't always worked out, for one reason or another, Cradley, Coventry, Arena Essex (successful stock cars), Weymouth, Newport, possibly Stoke?, possibly Somerset?. The Duggan family own Eastbourne, but that doesn't seem to be helping speedway to run there. 

I remember at Cowley on one occasion that the sound system had failed on the back straight and the fans were without public announcements for a number of meetings (?) because the owners were in no hurry to put it right and you can imagine the fans reaction?