Kings Lynn 2023

[Sings4Speedway 3,251]

Been done to death but basic figures that are likely way under what is actually being paid out shows the position PL teams are in. 

2000 spectators at £22 = £44,000 (less vat  = £35200) based on 100 points paid out (50 home and away) that allows for £350 per point....higher or lower etc as long as the average is £350 per point (and completely ignoring guarantees etc)

The 12 home fixtures at £10,000 a meeting to host (rent, medical, flights, fuel, tyres etc) as covered means sponsorships of at least £120,000 per season. 

Then add all the bells a whistles like vans, visas, accommodation, workshops, race suits, bike covers, team wear and other pre season costs, bonds etc its certainly not hard to see how teams who aren't getting 2000+ fans a week and don't have very good sponsorships are going to fall by the wayside very soon.

[E I Addio 15,862]

6 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Been done to death but basic figures that are likely way under what is actually being paid out shows the position PL teams are in. 

2000 spectators at £22 = £44,000 (less vat  = £35200) based on 100 points paid out (50 home and away) that allows for £350 per point....higher or lower etc as long as the average is £350 per point (and completely ignoring guarantees etc)

The 12 home fixtures at £10,000 a meeting to host (rent, medical, flights, fuel, tyres etc) as covered means sponsorships of at least £120,000 per season. 

Then add all the bells a whistles like vans, visas, accommodation, workshops, race suits, bike covers, team wear and other pre season costs, bonds etc its certainly not hard to see how teams who aren't getting 2000+ fans a week and don't have very good sponsorships are going to fall by the wayside very soon.

Which clubs do you reckon are averaging 2000 spectators per meeting throughout the entire season? I would be surprised if many are.Whatever the number you have to factor in concessions, kids for a quid and all that

Not sure where the £350 per point comes from. I doubt if many get that much.

According to the late Jon Cook it was costing around £20,000 to host a top league meeting in 2018, depending the cost of hiring the particular track. I doubt if that cost is any less today ( that would be the all in cost including points money etc. ). However what is abundantly clear is that whatever way you do the sums there is a massive shortfall between costs and gate money to be made up by sponsors. I don’t don’t how much sponsors pay but unless they are dyed- in-the-wall speedway fans sponsorship has to be at least in part a commercial decision based on exposure to size of audiences and frequency of meetings . The smaller the crowds the harder it is to justify sponsorship. In addition average age of the average speedway fan means there are less and less products to attract them.

In a nutshell, I think it is a wonder many teams stay afloat financially. I hate to be negative but I see no way that the decline of this fantastic, unique sport can ever be reversed. I think we also have to face the fact that the world has moved on since speedways Golden Age. Young people these days live a different life and are interested in different things. Less and less people want to hang around in often cold stadiums when they can stay at home and watch Netflix or whatever. 

[Gasser90 235]

31 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Been done to death but basic figures that are likely way under what is actually being paid out shows the position PL teams are in. 

2000 spectators at £22 = £44,000 (less vat  = £35200) based on 100 points paid out (50 home and away) that allows for £350 per point....higher or lower etc as long as the average is £350 per point (and completely ignoring guarantees etc)

The 12 home fixtures at £10,000 a meeting to host (rent, medical, flights, fuel, tyres etc) as covered means sponsorships of at least £120,000 per season. 

Then add all the bells a whistles like vans, visas, accommodation, workshops, race suits, bike covers, team wear and other pre season costs, bonds etc its certainly not hard to see how teams who aren't getting 2000+ fans a week and don't have very good sponsorships are going to fall by the wayside very soon.

90% of the riders in premiership are on probably half of that per point. I know for sure if a heat leader in the prem that is on £120 per point, 

[blue witch 46]

 

Lindgren not happy either

 

[StarBoy 178]

2 minutes ago, Gasser90 said:

90% of the riders in premiership are on probably half of that per point. I know for sure if a heat leader in the prem that is on £120 per point, 

Bloody hell he has to put a shift in to make it viable. 

[StarBoy 178]

36 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Been done to death but basic figures that are likely way under what is actually being paid out shows the position PL teams are in. 

2000 spectators at £22 = £44,000 (less vat  = £35200) based on 100 points paid out (50 home and away) that allows for £350 per point....higher or lower etc as long as the average is £350 per point (and completely ignoring guarantees etc)

The 12 home fixtures at £10,000 a meeting to host (rent, medical, flights, fuel, tyres etc) as covered means sponsorships of at least £120,000 per season. 

Then add all the bells a whistles like vans, visas, accommodation, workshops, race suits, bike covers, team wear and other pre season costs, bonds etc its certainly not hard to see how teams who aren't getting 2000+ fans a week and don't have very good sponsorships are going to fall by the wayside very soon.

Just having a rough estimate at KL wages per meeting, based on their current averages:

AL) £4k - £6k (guarantee)

NK) £1.5k - £1.75k

MPT) £1.2k - £1.4k

TJ) £900 - £1k

KT) £600 - £650

SL) £500-£600

AR) £350-400

Based on topline figures works out just under £12k a meeting. 

 

[Sings4Speedway 3,251]

28 minutes ago, Gasser90 said:

90% of the riders in premiership are on probably half of that per point. I know for sure if a heat leader in the prem that is on £120 per point, 

Wasn't saying anyone was on that. I was saying that as a potential average across a 1-7 would be the max clubs could possibly afford and thats with 2000+ fans a week. Facts are clubs simply cannot afford to support the current level of rider demanded (or current level of rider demands) something has to or already is giving in a very big way.

[Bojangles 610]

28 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Wasn't saying anyone was on that. I was saying that as a potential average across a 1-7 would be the max clubs could possibly afford and thats with 2000+ fans a week. Facts are clubs simply cannot afford to support the current level of rider demanded (or current level of rider demands) something has to or already is giving in a very big way.

It's not all doom and gloom, and think the figures quoted might be slightly higher than reality. I have it on good authority that Oxford broke even by the start of August last season, and everything after that was pure profit. They probably are getting over 2,000 fans a week, though, but costs can't have been that high if they were able to quickly recoup that loss and then start to make money. Admittedly this is the Championship we are talking about, so costs will be slightly lower, but then there's no TV money either.

[Bald Bloke 3,299]

7 hours ago, StarBoy said:

Just having a rough estimate at KL wages per meeting, based on their current averages:

AL) £4k - £6k (guarantee)

NK) £1.5k - £1.75k

MPT) £1.2k - £1.4k

TJ) £900 - £1k

KT) £600 - £650

SL) £500-£600

AR) £350-400

Based on topline figures works out just under £12k a meeting. 

 

I think you might be a little high with some , but as you said "top line".  But you can see the problem. 1000, 1200 at best for home meetings at the AFA, to pay for both home and away is a no goer. Some of them are kids, concessions, and you have the dreaded tax to pay as well . I think the days of £120K sponsors are a thing of the past at Lynn. It was rumoured that  Mr. Warnes was putting in that kind of money once. A good sponsor for Lynn would be around £50k these days is my guess. 

Alex has said that he pumped a large wedge of his own money on top of the sponsorship money his company put in. So you can see where Buster is coming from when he says we are over budget. Lynn in the Prem isn't sustainable with our crowds. I'd rather drop down than not be competitive every year, if i'm honest. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Bald Bloke

[Flappy 1,610]

32 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said:

I think you might be a little high with some , but as you said "top line".  But you can see the problem. 1000, 1200 at best for home meetings at the AFA, to pay for both home and away is a no goer. Some of them are kids, concessions, and you have the dreaded tax to pay as well . I think the days of £120K sponsors are a thing of the past at Lynn. It was rumoured that  Mr. Warnes was putting in that kind of money once. A good sponsor for Lynn would be around £50k these days is my guess. 

Alex has said that he pumped a large wedge of his own money on top of the sponsorship money his company put in. You can see where Buster is coming from when he says we are over budget. Lynn in the Prem isn't sustainable with our crowds. I'd rather drop down than not be competitive every year, if i'm honest. 

If this isn't sustainable with what is essentially a championship team can they even compete in the championship. 

The sport has quite frankly outgrown Buster now and there's no shame in that but both of his clubs need new owners and to be run at a level they can compete at 

[Bald Bloke 3,299]

6 minutes ago, Flappy said:

If this isn't sustainable with what is essentially a championship team can they even compete in the championship. 

The sport has quite frankly outgrown Buster now and there's no shame in that but both of his clubs need new owners and to be run at a level they can compete at 

Lynn's team will be cheaper now with Fred and Picko gone. Buster honouring Artem's deal is probably what's pinching his pocket now, and obviously wouldn't be the case in the Champ. I think Lynn could survive in the lower tier. Especially if they challenging near the top. I don't think the crowds would be down a great deal. Fans like a winning team, and it might attract a few  newbies/old fans back in if the team was winning, and be a bit cheaper for the fans. All the Stars need is a new promoter, not an owner, and imo Buster will do all he can to accommodate one at Lynn .Although he seems done with it all, he's a Lynn speedway man at heart.

 

 

[StarBoy 178]

26 minutes ago, Flappy said:

If this isn't sustainable with what is essentially a championship team can they even compete in the championship. 

The sport has quite frankly outgrown Buster now and there's no shame in that but both of his clubs need new owners and to be run at a level they can compete at 

Surely what Laguta is on alone would cover what a championships wages are? I'm just assuming...

[StarBoy 178]

1 hour ago, Bald Bloke said:

I think you might be a little high with some , but as you said "top line".  But you can see the problem. 1000, 1200 at best for home meetings at the AFA, to pay for both home and away is a no goer. Some of them are kids, concessions, and you have the dreaded tax to pay as well . I think the days of £120K sponsors are a thing of the past at Lynn. It was rumoured that  Mr. Warnes was putting in that kind of money once. A good sponsor for Lynn would be around £50k these days is my guess. 

Alex has said that he pumped a large wedge of his own money on top of the sponsorship money his company put in. You can see where Buster is coming from when he says we are over budget. Lynn in the Prem isn't sustainable with our crowds. I'd rather drop down than not be competitive every year, if i'm honest. 

I'm with you on dropping down

[Bald Bloke 3,299]

34 minutes ago, StarBoy said:

I'm with you on dropping down

Ideally I'd like a new promotor who needs to off load  lots of cash each season,  and we stay in the Prem. Otherwise cut your cloth accordingly 

[Roger Jacobs 559]

5 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Been done to death but basic figures that are likely way under what is actually being paid out shows the position PL teams are in. 

2000 spectators at £22 …

2000 spectators at £22 is highly optimistic.  Even if they reached 2000, some would be season ticket holders, and others won’t be paying £22, e.g. concessions, and children (charged at different rates or free).

It’s all in a parlous state - hence Sheffield putting riders through unnecessary heats of potentially dangerous muddy riding so they could get to Heat 10 and keep all the gate receipts.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Roger Jacobs