Leicester vs Peterborough 06/07/23 PREMIERSHIP R2

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

16 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

If, and only if, it was deemed an unsatisfactory start.

If someone falls, there is no such thing as referee's discretion.

• 011.1.11 Primary Cause of Stoppage
  The only person with the power to stop a heat is the Referee.
  When a heat is stopped, the Referee shall disqualify the rider, who in their opinion is the primary cause of the stoppage.

It was so your point is irrelevant. We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Daniel Smith

[arnieg 3,649]

21 minutes ago, W9 Lion said:

As soon as the yellow 2 minute light goes on I start my stopwatch.  At 90 seconds I give the rider in Gate 1 the hurry up. I get more vocal with 15 seconds to go. Once happy with the rider in Gate 1 I move onto the next rider as per the rule book. At this point generally the riders in Gates 3 & 4 roll in at the same time.  This is the perfectly simple solution. But when you go away you rarely see a 2 minute clock or a start marshal with a stopwatch.

Given the number of postings on the subject we've clearly identified the single most important weakness of British Speedway - a clock. You should obviously do a thousand mea culpas before the crowd at the next match.

[W9 Lion 222]

19 minutes ago, iainb said:

That does not sound simpler than having a clock on the centre green that everybody can see and when that clock ticks down to zero and a rider is not at the tapes ready to start that rider is excluded, like in the GP's to be honest

Well because the rules are different for league racing to the SGP's.

011.1.3 2 Minute Allowance
The Referee must indicate the start of a 2 minute allowance by means of a
warning horn or bell audible in the pit area together with the flashing amber
lights if all of the riders are not in the starting area at the same time this
warning shall apply to all riders and can be given only once.
Except when the Referee considers that there are valid reasons for delaying
the start of an ensuing heat, the interval between the finish of one heat and
the start of the next shall not exceed 4 minutes including the 2 minute
allowance.
If a track has a countdown clock, that can be operated solely by the Referee,
then it is compulsory for the clock to be used.
Riders must, at the expiry of this time allowance, be on track, under power,
proceeding without stopping towards the starting gate.
If a rider is at the starting gate with sufficient time remaining of the 1 or 2
minute allowance they are permitted to prepare their starting gate area.
They must remain in full, personal control of their motorcycle, have the cut
out lanyard attached and with their motorcycle facing the direction of racing

[iainb 5,022]

17 minutes ago, W9 Lion said:

Well because the rules are different for league racing to the SGP's.

011.1.3 2 Minute Allowance
The Referee must indicate the start of a 2 minute allowance by means of a
warning horn or bell audible in the pit area together with the flashing amber
lights if all of the riders are not in the starting area at the same time this
warning shall apply to all riders and can be given only once.
Except when the Referee considers that there are valid reasons for delaying
the start of an ensuing heat, the interval between the finish of one heat and
the start of the next shall not exceed 4 minutes including the 2 minute
allowance.
If a track has a countdown clock, that can be operated solely by the Referee,
then it is compulsory for the clock to be used.
Riders must, at the expiry of this time allowance, be on track, under power,
proceeding without stopping towards the starting gate.
If a rider is at the starting gate with sufficient time remaining of the 1 or 2
minute allowance they are permitted to prepare their starting gate area.
They must remain in full, personal control of their motorcycle, have the cut
out lanyard attached and with their motorcycle facing the direction of racing

I know what the rules are and I know the difference between SCB and FIM/SGP... I'm saying they should be the same, why aren't they the same? Because not every track will buy a clock? That the Start Marshal can start if the Ref can't? If that's the reason then it's quite frankly ridiculous! Why does British Speedway tie itself up in unnecessary rules that are left open to interpretation?

If there had been a clock there last night NKI would have been at the tapes when it counted down to zero... but no, the paying public were deprived of a race containing the oppositions main man on the night because he couldn't see the stop watch on your wrist! Unbelievable!

[iainb 5,022]

35 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Given the number of postings on the subject we've clearly identified the single most important weakness of British Speedway - a clock. You should obviously do a thousand mea culpas before the crowd at the next match.

You may make light of it... but it is important and in a way it is part of the biggest weakness with British Speedway and that is integrity. Can you imagine Tennis being played in 2023 without Hawkeye or Cricket without Snicko etc? All very high tech, Speedway? Can't (or won't) afford a bloody clock!

When is 2 minutes not 2 minutes? When it's in Speedway. A clock at the start line removes any doubt as to whether a rider is ready to start, whether he's on track, under power, proceeding without stopping etc etc blah blah blah.

It's like what is an unsatisfactory start? There should be a line on the track and if an incident happens beyond that line an unsatisfactory start can't be called. These are the lackadaisically written rules that can tie a sport up in knots... look at the mess F1 got itself into last weekend with track limits!

[W9 Lion 222]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

I know what the rules are and I know the difference between SCB and FIM/SGP... I'm saying they should be the same, why aren't they the same? Because not every track will buy a clock? That the Start Marshal can start if the Ref can't? If that's the reason then it's quite frankly ridiculous! Why does British Speedway tie itself up in unnecessary rules that are left open to interpretation?

If there had been a clock there last night NKI would have been at the tapes when it counted down to zero... but no, the paying public were deprived of a race containing the oppositions main man on the night because he couldn't see the stop watch on your wrist! Unbelievable!

Two seasons ago I remember watch NKI get excluded for 2 mins in the Swedish at his home track that has a countdown clock.

The stopwatch on my wrist is for my benefit so I am fair to all riders, A riders knows when they are short on time as they are told by the Start Marshal at Leicester. NKI choose to ignore this and the following instructions including the ref flashing the green light twice. The only person who deprved the paying public of the oppositons main man was the rider.

[iainb 5,022]

17 minutes ago, W9 Lion said:

Two seasons ago I remember watch NKI get excluded for 2 mins in the Swedish at his home track that has a countdown clock.

The stopwatch on my wrist is for my benefit so I am fair to all riders, A riders knows when they are short on time as they are told by the Start Marshal at Leicester. NKI choose to ignore this and the following instructions including the ref flashing the green light twice. The only person who deprved the paying public of the oppositons main man was the rider.

Why don't you want a clock on the centre that everybody can see?

[W9 Lion 222]

13 minutes ago, iainb said:

Why don't you want a clock on the centre that everybody can see?

I have never said I dont want a clock. I would welcome it. However, as I have previously posted it needs to be controlled by the ref.  I have worked with them at other tracks and it makes life easier as did the second line on the startline that we had a few seasons ago where the rider had to put their front wheel spindal directly above it.

[Roger Jacobs 554]

3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

It was so your point is irrelevant. We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. 

That makes no sense. Either it was stopped for an unsatisfactory start, or it wasn't.

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

4 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

That makes no sense. Either it was stopped for an unsatisfactory start, or it wasn't.

It makes evwry sense

[Roger Jacobs 554]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

It makes evwry sense

You said: "We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. "

Therefore it sounds as if the Ref stopped it because the rider fell ... which means the Ref doesn't have any discretion, and should exclude whoever is deemed at fault.  

[bigcatdiary 3,165]

6 hours ago, False dawn said:

No need for a clock.

The 2 minute warning was sounded.
An announcement was made
A 60 second warning was announced.
A 30 second warning was announced.
NKI then emerged from the pit gate.
He came to the gate at a reasonable speed but not with any sense of urgency.
He then started a full gardening routine.
This was permitted for a short time, but eventually the starting marshal called NKI forward to join the other 3 riders who had been ready to race for some time.
NKI failed to come forward and the ref clearly felt that enough was enough.

I have some sympathy for the view that this was not untypical. I had began to get a bit fed up with the delays at the start last night and generally, actually. But arriving at the start well within the 2 minutes and then gardening is one thing. Leaving the pits with less than 30 seconds to go and then expecting to take significant time preparing to race is taking the pee. And it wasn't just Leicester fans who cheered when NKI was excluded.

Some reasonable points but NKI rode in heats 12, 13 and 15 so clearly could have had issues that needed attention including a likely tyre change, fuel, oil etc.

Bearing in mind that the race wasn't deciding anything either points or aggregate etc, I think some time and common sense should have been applied and unfortunately Jarvis showed niether, having stated that Iversen was excluded for delaying the start the exclusion this action then delayed the meeting conclusion for another few minutes whilst his replacement got ready and appeared.

It was all so pointless.

[Daniel Smith 5,666]

18 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

You said: "We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. "

Therefore it sounds as if the Ref stopped it because the rider fell ... which means the Ref doesn't have any discretion, and should exclude whoever is deemed at fault.  

Correct, it was stopped because a rider fell & the rider at fault from the tapes gained an advantage. The referee chose the unsatisfactory start option & called all four back. 

It's not hard to grasp, it is an option to the referee's. 

[Happy Hunter 370]

14 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said:

Some reasonable points but NKI rode in heats 12, 13 and 15 so clearly could have had issues that needed attention including a likely tyre change, fuel, oil etc.

Bearing in mind that the race wasn't deciding anything either points or aggregate etc, I think some time and common sense should have been applied and unfortunately Jarvis showed niether, having stated that Iversen was excluded for delaying the start the exclusion this action then delayed the meeting conclusion for another few minutes whilst his replacement got ready and appeared.

It was all so pointless.

The score does have a bearing on the aggregate point. They still have to race the second leg!

[Shhalewhhale 26]

Just now, Happy Hunter said:

The score does have a bearing on the aggregate point. They still have to race the second leg!

Bit of a foregone conclusion where that bonus point is going