K7KDD 15 Posted October 10, 2023 1 League 2 home 2 away League Trophy for top of the League Champions. Play-off Trophy - Top two teams in league standing through to play-off - 4 team Final. Teams finishing 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th have a 4 team Semi Final.....top two through to Final. Both the Semi-Final and the Final is held at a neutral venue, maybe drawn from venues of teams finishing below 6th in the league? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K7KDD 15 Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, K7KDD said: 1 League 2 home 2 away League Trophy for top of the League Champions. Play-off Trophy - Top two teams in league standing through to play-off - 4 team Final. Teams finishing 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th have a 4 team Semi Final.....top two through to Final. Both the Semi-Final and the Final is held at a neutral venue, maybe drawn from venues of teams finishing below 6th in the league? I should have added....No K cup, No BSN trophy.....all that is cancelled and focus is on the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topaz325 1,859 Posted October 11, 2023 Dilemma , most riders have got used to riding in at least two Leagues in the UK and other Leagues across Europe to make Speedway pay, even the riders who are riding solely in the UK are used to riding in two Leagues plus getting guest payments, some have jobs but will work around Speedway when not riding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, topaz325 said: Dilemma , most riders have got used to riding in at least two Leagues in the UK and other Leagues across Europe to make Speedway pay, even the riders who are riding solely in the UK are used to riding in two Leagues plus getting guest payments, some have jobs but will work around Speedway when not riding. "Enough meetings for riders" is the starting point, and the major objective that must be delivered.. Seconded by "What level of rider can my club afford to have"... The structure chosen then has to reflect those two objectives.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, topaz325 said: Dilemma , most riders have got used to riding in at least two Leagues in the UK and other Leagues across Europe to make Speedway pay, even the riders who are riding solely in the UK are used to riding in two Leagues plus getting guest payments, some have jobs but will work around Speedway when not riding. Do what’s best for the sport. If that means riders noses are put out of joint and they have to get jobs on the side so be it. The competitor should bend to the will of the sport they want to compete in, not the other way around. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therefused 819 Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, mikebv said: "Enough meetings for riders" is the starting point, and the major objective that must be delivered.. Seconded by "What level of rider can my club afford to have"... The structure chosen then has to reflect those two objectives.. No it isnt 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheWellBehavedWorrall 289 Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, mikebv said: "Enough meetings for riders" is the starting point, and the major objective that must be delivered.. Seconded by "What level of rider can my club afford to have"... The structure chosen then has to reflect those two objectives.. Absolutely not. Don’t get me wrong; there will be some disgruntled riders and clubs, should the leagues merge, but it’ll be for the long-term health of British Speedway. Our very own Chris Harris will arguably suffer most, but we’ve now reached a point of farce: the Premiership will have one more club in it than a Champions League group and the qualifying for the Championship’s play-offs isn’t a novelty because more teams do than don’t. Variety is near non-existent in British Speedway and that is the biggest threat to the sport in this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,278 Posted October 11, 2023 4 hours ago, TheWellBehavedWorrall said: Absolutely not. Don’t get me wrong; there will be some disgruntled riders and clubs, should the leagues merge, but it’ll be for the long-term health of British Speedway. Our very own Chris Harris will arguably suffer most, but we’ve now reached a point of farce: the Premiership will have one more club in it than a Champions League group and the qualifying for the Championship’s play-offs isn’t a novelty because more teams do than don’t. Variety is near non-existent in British Speedway and that is the biggest threat to the sport in this country. A pipe dream... You cannot run the level that the promoters want without ensuring many riders have to be full time pros.. 2nd Div Promoters want to use Div 1 level HL's, so that Div1 HL needs to be spending plenty and therefore expects a decent return... When £30k (and often well, well above) is the outlay on kit then riders need to ride as much as is possible.. In a perfect world, there would be clear demarcation within the leagues, and organic aspirational growth, with no rider sharing.. That ship sailed many, many years ago (if it had even ever been contemplated that is)... Speedway in the UK is in "survival mode" rather than "growth mode", and has been for a good many years, with promoters doing their level best in their own way to keep it going... If they could "run it properly like other sports" then I am 100% sure they would.. What we have is pretty much all there is, so no point in hoping for any magic wand to come along and change things.. Enjoy the racing, but dont get too bothered about the results, is the best way to look at UK Speedway... It still has the ability to provide huge excitement and a good night out when done well, as a fair few tracks do... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,363 Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, mikebv said: A pipe dream... You cannot run the level that the promoters want without ensuring many riders have to be full time pros.. 2nd Div Promoters want to use Div 1 level HL's, so that Div1 HL needs to be spending plenty and therefore expects a decent return... When £30k (and often well, well above) is the outlay on kit then riders need to ride as much as is possible.. In a perfect world, there would be clear demarcation within the leagues, and organic aspirational growth, with no rider sharing.. That ship sailed many, many years ago (if it had even ever been contemplated that is)... Speedway in the UK is in "survival mode" rather than "growth mode", and has been for a good many years, with promoters doing their level best in their own way to keep it going... If they could "run it properly like other sports" then I am 100% sure they would.. What we have is pretty much all there is, so no point in hoping for any magic wand to come along and change things.. Enjoy the racing, but dont get too bothered about the results, is the best way to look at UK Speedway... It still has the ability to provide huge excitement and a good night out when done well, as a fair few tracks do... Like you say enjoy the racing results don’t really matter.It’s still a good night’s entertainment to the diehards. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted October 11, 2023 Merge the top two tiers. Change race format and have 5 rider teams instead of 7. Each team races each other once at home and once away. Top 4 do a 4TT style play off at end of season. If the teams closing actually go (Wolves, Peterborough) then you can't go with two leagues again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheWellBehavedWorrall 289 Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, mikebv said: A pipe dream... You cannot run the level that the promoters want without ensuring many riders have to be full time pros.. 2nd Div Promoters want to use Div 1 level HL's, so that Div1 HL needs to be spending plenty and therefore expects a decent return... When £30k (and often well, well above) is the outlay on kit then riders need to ride as much as is possible.. In a perfect world, there would be clear demarcation within the leagues, and organic aspirational growth, with no rider sharing.. That ship sailed many, many years ago (if it had even ever been contemplated that is)... Speedway in the UK is in "survival mode" rather than "growth mode", and has been for a good many years, with promoters doing their level best in their own way to keep it going... If they could "run it properly like other sports" then I am 100% sure they would.. What we have is pretty much all there is, so no point in hoping for any magic wand to come along and change things.. Enjoy the racing, but dont get too bothered about the results, is the best way to look at UK Speedway... It still has the ability to provide huge excitement and a good night out when done well, as a fair few tracks do... I’ve liked this for honesty, but find it somewhat a defeatist mentality and that isn’t a criticism; I simply don’t know the costs associated with running a club. Your comment about enjoying the racing, but not getting bothered by the result is sad (again, not a criticism) because if you had been to Ashfield for the Oxford and Poole matches and no doubt Wimborne Road tonight, you’d see how much those results mean to people. You’re obviously well-educated on the subject, but I’d be interested to hear what your thoughts are on what’s caused British Speedway to find itself in this situation? Again, I’d like to reiterate that none of this is a criticism; you’re more than likely accurate with your comments and sometimes, the truth hurts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Pinny said: Merge the top two tiers. Change race format and have 5 rider teams instead of 7. Each team races each other once at home and once away. Top 4 do a 4TT style play off at end of season. If the teams closing actually go (Wolves, Peterborough) then you can't go with two leagues again. Five rider teams would be the death knell for me. The circle would just get even smaller with less riders required and the same amount of doubling up undoubtedly allowed. Then you’ll get riders missing and sides competing with a four rider line up and R/R. It would make the sport more tinpot than it already is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pinny 2,536 Posted October 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ben91 said: Five rider teams would be the death knell for me. The circle would just get even smaller with less riders required and the same amount of doubling up undoubtedly allowed. Then you’ll get riders missing and sides competing with a four rider line up and R/R. It would make the sport more tinpot than it already is. Youd have to have less riders per team as if all teams are in one league you couldnt have doubling up. There isnt enough riders to go round of a good standard for a big league, and there isnt enough clubs anymore to do two leagues plus a NDL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted October 11, 2023 37 minutes ago, Pinny said: Youd have to have less riders per team as if all teams are in one league you couldnt have doubling up. There isnt enough riders to go round of a good standard for a big league, and there isnt enough clubs anymore to do two leagues plus a NDL. Less riders per team weakens the sport just as much as a slightly weaker league to accommodate the standard of riders we have/can attract here. So long as the racing is competitive and teams aren’t made up of wobblers then fans will attend. There are enough riders out there for that to be feasible with one league and seven rider teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,363 Posted October 11, 2023 7 hours ago, Ben91 said: Do what’s best for the sport. If that means riders noses are put out of joint and they have to get jobs on the side so be it. The competitor should bend to the will of the sport they want to compete in, not the other way around. Agree,that’s why the sport is in such decline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
