mikebv

Fireman Phil? How many meetings would be postponed due to waterlogged tracks?

As the country, and city centres in particular, have become more ethnically diverse, Speedway doesnt seem to have done anything to try and engage the many thousands of those non white British people, living on their doorstep.. Although, to be fair, they haven't done much to attract the white British people who live local to a track either..

100%... What would any Independant body actually recommend? Having teams decide what leagues they race in rather than have organic, aspirational growth through attainment, is not a good idea..? Letting teams borrow each others riders to the complete detriment and devaluation of the sports credibility, and thus reducing major sponsorship potential, is not a good idea...? Letting your employees dictate your opening hours (whether the best times for you or not) so they can have multiple jobs, is not a good idea..? Having no joined up, collective, local and national marketing plan for the sport, funded by a budget set aside to do it, is not a good idea? Annually raising admission fees to pay for too many professional riders in a sport with so few followers, is not a good idea? Using something as subjective, and delivered by such wide variables, as averages to equalise team strengths, thus allowing those with more money to be "more equal than others", is not a good idea..? In summary, any independent body or person would just say "change your operating model to one that is fit for purpose"... Everyone, including the promoters I would say, already know this..

Sky didnt pull out before 2006 did they? Thought it was much more recent than that.. Edit Just checked. BT took over UK coverage in 2017... Sky paid up their contract in 2016 Sky showed British Speedway for a long, long time... And paid a hell of a lot of money in too...

As I edited on my last post.. It was £5m for Five years in 2001... The interview with Vanessa Purchase didnt say whether that was "gross or net" of the "finders fee"... Can't remember the exact amount each track got for holding a meeting but do remember thinking at the time that it was a "decent amount".. Especially considering that early into the contract tracks got very good crowds with the novelty of TV being there getting fans to attend their tracks.. And tracks would also do plenty of "add ons" to try and attract crowds with kids being a particular target audience... Dont know if the next contract five years later yielded the same, or similar...

Wasn't it just over £100k a club per season?.. With individual meetings getting another '£x thousand to offset any crowd loss due to live TV.. That was in a 10 club Elite league.. And it went in for a fair few years, so it was a good few million.. Edit. Cant link it up but just read an article from 2001 with Vanessa Purchase of Oxford in the Oxford Mail, where she discusses the £5 million, five year deal with Sky..

There's been 'loads of different riders' riding here over the years pre covid and the steep decline over the past 20 years or so in particular has taken place with them here.... Many of whom were World Class.....

"Doing exactly the same thing over and over again and, each time you do it expecting a completely different result" is oft quoted as the definition of insanity. ... 2022.... Seven man teams - Tick Fixed race nights even if not the best night to race on - Tick No aspirational growth of the sport due to teams deciding themselves what league they race in - Tick Employees own agendas dictating your opening hours - Tick Guests galore - Tick Sharing riders across both divisions - Tick The same teams and riders visiting frequently so a lack of variety for fans - Tick Increasing admission costs to pay for full time professionals in a sport with such a low following - Tick Using averages delivered by many variable reasons to build the teams to be 'equal' - Tick Minimal transparency of rules so they can be circumnavigated or, if needed, completely ignored - Tick The shelving of a Five Year Plan well before the five years are up - Tick Every rider being eligible to ride for every team on an adhoc basis thus ensuring that winning has no kudos or relevance - Tick Etc. Etc. Etc.. All boxes ticked.... Wonder what 2022 will turn out like?

Who is Norick Blowdorn? I am trying to work out if it is an anagram....

Had a couple of good Saturday nights in Worky watching the Comets... (From what I remember given the post match hospitality in the local pubs and B and B)... Be great to spend another Saturday evening/Sunday morning up there. .)

Am I missing something? I have read through the thread and there hasnt been any real negativity re the fight to get Rye House reopened.. A few people have expressed their doubts but surely that is natural given the precedents set so often when tracks close down. ie they usually dont come back.. And it is only an opinion of someone on a forum, nothing more and nothing less. It hardly makes any difference to whether Rye House come back or not I would suggest... Likewise, nor will the many positive messages of best wishes that seem to outnumber any 'doubters' comments considerably.. Forums are about opinons, otherwise it isnt worth having them... Taking any comments from others with a different view to you ultra personally definitely isnt worth it... Best wishes to Rye House, been twice and enjoyed both visits..

At the old track there were many a season where we would often see 'average' riders beating the Aces lads by miles and think "we should sign him for next season".. Then we would sign these riders and would soon realise that they only had looked good because we were so garbage...

Craig Cook 6.98, don't know if that incudes the GB reduction? And Jordan Palin on his actual average, not as an RS.... Would that fit? Two young GB stars of the future. .. One flies around the NSS, and Peterborough, whilst the other seems to more than hold his own at all tracks.... Cook and Batch in the same team too. . Easy days for Mark Lemon....

And severely impacts you dong any "specials" during the season to try and drum up some extra custom... What I would do is raffle off say ten tickets over the first ten matches, one per match.... I would suggest you would get circa £10k for those tickets at just a £ a pop rather than around the £3k or so you would get ordinarily.. And missing the odd meeting wouldnt matter if you hadn't spent loads on the ticket..

Not for Poland it seems is "any speedway is better than no speedway" the mission it would appear.. Quality control is high on their agenda obviously to maintain a strong product... Although, not letting foreign teams go into the top league could also dissuade these clubs from speculating to accumulate... Hence some may spend the minimum to have the kudos of competing..

Always amazed me how so few tracks seem to have a "proper" marketing person to increase the awareness in the local areas... If all tracks could deliver just another 500 (a ludicrously low number which shows where the sport is), a night the whole spectrum changes re paying costs and being able to then pro actively develop the sport.. And it doesn't have to be the same 500, just any 500 each week... With those who attend now and again targeted (and incentivised) to visit more as they are the "quick wins".. My city of Manchester has well over 2.5 MIllion people all living with 45 mins of the NSS... Some living in the centre but most by far living in satellite towns around it... What an opportunity for someone to work to a performance related pay scale to try and entice just a minuscule percentage of that 2.5 Million to attend..? Give them a basic and a good percentage of any growth in income... Let them dish out free and reduced tickets to people who they know don't go now, as 500 non attendees paying even a tenner is an extra five grand if they go an watch., and you then push some multi meeting tickets at reduced rates to try and get them into the habit of going.. Knowing names, addresses, emails, phone numbers, birthdays of individuals and their families, sending Xmas cards etc etc etc is a very, very basic marketing technique used in the entertainment sector, to keep your business in contact with (and therefore remembered by) your customers.. Helping you to reward your most loyal customers while also giving you the chance to get back those who maybe have stopped going, or get the infrequent punters to attend more often... As for websites? Even if a track doesn't want to fork out for improvements, I am sure every track will have a college or a uni nearby that has graduates building them for masters degree passes and would jump at the chance of a 'real life' project to 'hand in' as part of their coursework.. Young, modern thinkers delivering a website to be aimed at people of a similar age and outlook.. However, as so many seem to have zero local marking, it is therefore no surprise that at national level there isn't some kind of joined up campaign to raise awareness of the sport generically, and tracks locally off the back of it.. As a collective they spend literally millions of pounds each season in costs, yet spend almost zilch in getting someone to help increase their income... As for a sponsor.? Sadly the ridiculous operating model will prevent any major brand being associated with it, (even if the fan numbers and their demographics were different), hence Poland wouldn't use it in their leagues as fans, media, and sponsors would simply walk away.. So much could be done at a local level for so little cost and given the ridiculously low numbers needed for 'success', I am always truly amazed so little is actually done..

Possibly, but looking at the news tonight it seems relaxing rules around Europe isnt on the agenda for too many as more lockdowns take place.. I would think it is still a big risk committing to anyone from mainland Europe...

Although Schlein and Pedersen have both retired, so that is two heat leaders down already on last year.. And that is where the need is the greatest for those teams who start late in their team building.. Newcastle last year being an obvious example..

Speedway riders are pretty much 'Ex Everyone" the speed they change teams... And of course whilst guesting some can pretty much represent every team in the league, in particular the top league, with only five other teams to ride for.. When you go on YouTube and watch league matches from say five or so years ago it is amazing to see current riders riding for teams that I had zero recollection of them ever riding for, with many being one season only team members. I suppose when you use averages you will always get "We need a 5.96, to complete the team, so he'll do as he isnt bad around our place"...

Supply and demand for the U24's has meant (forced) the second and third tier clubs to have increased their salaries.. A good time to be a better than decent young up and coming rider.. Someone suggested that Tom Brennan would have been better joining an U24 team in the top division.. At this stage of his career getting those type of numbers in the 2nd tier would be far better.. You can upgrade your kit quite significantly for long term progress with that type of remuneration..

Wow... Over £53k for a signing on fee and over £500 a point in the SECOND tier of Polish Speedway? And circa half that in the third tier... Some money that for a young up and coming rider to aim for..

Correct... However, the business models of Football and Speedway are a world apart.. Many owners of Football teams happily run at hundreds of millions of (serviceable) debt due to owning all fixtures and fittings, own the land the stadium is built on, and have in some cases, literally billions of pounds of assets. ... Not to mention guaranteed enormous income from TV... With the ultimate safety net being that if it all goes pear shaped then someone else will see the opportunity of the untold riches that can be delivered and give you a huge purchase fee... Speedway in most cases are tenants with an asset base of circa a tractor, a fence and an air bag, with some riders who may, or may not, have any intrinsic value... In football a team can spend 200 million during a transfer window, all adding to the debt, however they are not guaranteed success because other teams can spend tens and tens of millions too, all safe in the knowledge that their asset base is higher than their debts... In Speedway, one club spending £100k more than their rivals just adds salary inflation into the market, when the last thing the sport needs is teams spending more.. Football needs a 'Manchester United' to keep it at the forefront of billions of people's thoughts globally. . But it also needs a 'Watford' who can compete with them on a reasonably level playing field... There should be a salary cap which all sign up to, with the number of riders per team being driven by the riders expectations of salary, against what the salary cap is... Teams should never pay any more than that, however added on sponsorship can and should count. With the caveat being it is "proper sponsorship" not like happens in football for example where the 'oil rich clubs' in particular skirt around FFP by gaining huge sponsors through not exactly transparent means... Eg. Say there were 18 teams split into two, eight in the top tier and ten in the second, with five men per team, then that would be 28 matches for the top tier, and 36 for the second tier, if home and away twice.. 14 home matches @ £18 would generate £252k if 1000 average per week (an absolute minimum crowd surely to what tier one teams do get I would suggest). Take off the VAT and that's around £200k to cover rider and meeting costs.. £5k per night for the riders (an average of a grand each, some higher some lower) would mean £140k paid out for 28 matches... Headroom of £60k to pay other costs... In the 2nd tier @ £16 admission at 700 per meeting it would deliver just under £202k for 18 home matches (£161k ex VAT).. £3k per night for the riders (an average of £600 each, some higher, some lower) would mean £126k paid out for 36 matches.. Headroom of £35k to pay other costs.. A decent heat leader doubling up could earn as an average therefore around £3.2k a week for four meetings.. Not huge money given what they do, however very decent in comparison to the average wage, and as we often say, they can still work November to March doing other things. ..

Exactly... Surely at least some of them can see how winning any Speedway title with so few competitors (and the ridiculous way it can be won with every rider in the league possibly playing his part regardless of team), is pretty much as shallow a victory as any could be.. (Apart from maybe the boat race).. In a sport that brings great financial reward I get "throwing money at it" as there will be competition which, whilst not as rich, can still provide decent opposition, and you can speculate to accumulate.. The Football Premier League and Polish Speedway are two examples where spending big can give rewards but those who spend less can still compete.. And the Poles launching the U24 League shows how they want this conveyor belt of talent (not just Polish), to continue so as to ensure their Leagues stay full of fans, sponsors and coverage.. In Speedway there is far too disparate a distance between the haves and the have nots, with, you could argue, several clubs plying their trade in the "wrong" league for their size and backing.. How few teams need to be left before someone starts to properly equalise team strengths through salary spend? A salary spend that never goes over a certain amount that all sign up to, and will keep clubs in the black.. Eg. Could you run six man teams for £4k per team per night in the top league? And say £3k a night in the 2nd Division? Run twice a week in both leagues and that's £8k being shared between six lads in the top tier and £6k being shared in the 2nd.. We know that DU'ing is necessary as it is clear Promoters are quite happy for riders to be full time pro's, so heat leaders doing both leagues would pick up a decent return every week, taking a decent share each of the £14k their two teams will be paying out.. Or maybe run with the same £'s per night but five man teams thus increasing the return for the rider? Averages certainly dont equalise teams as is obvious every year, as they are delivered by too many variables, with fans every pre season pointing out the clear wooden spoon contenders, and not often being wrong.. Not many take any win of either match or even league too seriously, so surely success should be measured in the growth of the leagues, and ultimately through that, the sport itself?

It is an incredible business plan for so many isnt it? Knowing (and pro actively planning) that you will lose money on the thing you are selling as costs will be a fair old way in excess of income.. Therefore, you rely on subsidies from others, or your own other business interests to offset those costs.. But yet you do fundamentally exactly the same thing, year in, year out, and never actually make any tangible lasting changes or improvements to your business as "getting through" is your major measure of attainment.. Pumping an incredible amount of money into a sport which is followed each week track side by how many? 20,000 or so max in the whole of the nation? An incredible amount that achieves virtually nothing in pushing the sport, and thus their own businesses, forward.. You have to admire their dedication but at the same time, question their operating and business plan as both are a long way away from being good enough for the purpose of running a professional team sport... There MUST be another way surely where all work together to reduce costs and all then benefit collectively to invest in the sports future..?

That NDL racing that had an operating model that seemed to bring on newly opened tracks so much they "progressed" to level two, and also seemed to be a profitable proposition for those who did move "up" or stayed put at that level? As has been said often, that level should form the basis "core" of UK Speedway with a 2nd tier running with around 10 clubs at (old) "NDL Plus/Championship Lite" standard.. "If it's NOT broken then break it".. Another new adage from the Sport.. I remember on the Newcastle thread someone publishing the accounts for one of their recent seasons, and their outgoings were truly eye watering for (no disrespect), a track that doesnt usually attract top level riders given their Sunday race day, and are often mid to lower mid table in the 2nd Division... Living in this "hand to mouth/will they see the season out or wont they?" existence cannot do the sport any favours, particularly as you are never focused on its development or progression, but instead just on its survival.. You would think that at least for one season all would come together, agree a "lower level", and agree a total payroll spend for each club and then using some of the money saved, which they currently pretty much "waste for zero return", actually deliver a joined up, collective marketing campaign which can move the whole entity forward.. They seem collectively to spend literally millions for next to nothing in return.. All very strange...