norbold

And what are those well-known dates, pray?

This whole argument about Johnnie Hoskins reminds me of the argument between Creationists and (for want of a better word) Evolutionists. No matter how many times it is proved that Johnnie Hoskins did not invent speedway, there are those who just have blind faith and refused to be moved by evidence. Well, good luck to them, but some of us prefer to do the research and find out what really happened and the truth about how speedway began. It's far more interesting than saying "Hoskinsdidit".

1929 was run as a series of home and away match races in two sections - Britain and Overseas. Overseas Results 1st Round Sprouts Elder bt Billy Galloway Billy Lamont bt Art Pechar Vic Huxley bt Ron Johnson Frank Arthur bt Max Grosskreutz Stan Catlett v Alf Chick (not raced) Semi-finals Vic Huxley bt Sprouts Elder Frank Arthur bt Billy Lamont Final Frank Arthur bt Vic Huxley British Results 1st Round Buster Frogley bt Jim Kempster Ivor Creek bt Tommy Croombs Jack Parker bt Jimmy Hayes Colin Watson bt Eric Spencer Roger Frogley bt Gus Kuhn 2nd Round Roger Frogley bt Ivor Creek Colin Watson bt Buster Frogley Jack Parker (bye) Semi-final Jack Parker bt Colin Watson Final Roger Frogley bt Jack Parker

Hmmm...the ticket actually says, "Admit One Child Free...Every Saturday..." So I'm not sure how they can get out of that.

Clapton were called the Saints in 1933 because midway during the 1932 the Southampton team (who were known as the Saints) moved en bloc to Lea Bridge. Crystal Palace were certainly known as the Glaziers in 1933 and Wembley were known as the Lions. Harringay missed the 1932 and 1933 seasons but returned in 1934 as the Tigers, having been previously known as the Canaries. I don't know when West Ham and Wimbledon obtained their nicknames - it's an interesting point.

My top 10 British riders would be: 1. Tom Farndon 2. Peter Craven 3. Peter Collins 4. Tommy Price 5. Michael Lee 6. Freddie Williams 7. Split Waterman 8. Eric Langton 9. Brian Crutcher 10. Nigel Boocock

It was originally due to take place in August but was rained off.

It was held on 27 October 1985 at Rye House. Don't know who wore no. 1 though.

None of the "Star" riders rode for any teams in 1929 (at least not until almost the very end of the season). I thought Robbie was asking who the riders he mentioned represented in the 1929 Star Riders' Championship.

Tommy Croombs - Lea Bridge Buster Frogley - Wembley Roger Frogley - Crystal Palace Jimmy Hayes - Southampton Jack Parker - Coventry

Of course, they used to have nos 9-16 in the previous year's Grand Prix racing against the top qualifiers in the Grand Prix Challenge for the final places in the Grand Prix line up, but they had to stop that because Andy Smith kept qualifying through this method!

Not that it has anything to do with speedway, but Clapton Stadium was also home to Clapton Orient F.C. before they moved off to Leyton and became Leyton Orient. I lived next door to Clapton Stadium for the first 18 years of my life - and when I say next door, I mean next door! We were THE house next door. Shame there was no speedway there as I think I would have seen my first meeting well before 1960 if there had been....

It certainly does. Thanks for the info, speedyguy. Just to clarify one thing: Rye House closed on 10 October 1993 and then reopened on 29 May 2000 (after running a year as you say mostly at Mildenhall in 1999). Also, although the track was open as a training track in 1967/68, no public meetings were held. They were also one of the few tracks to run during the War, with meetings being held every War year except 1944, with racing resuming on 5 August 1945. (I believe there's a good book out which will give more information on the subject! See here

New Cross started in 1934 for ANY sort of racing.

Hackney 12 July. Both Collins and Jessup scored 15 each. Collins: 2 3 2 3 2 3 Jessup: 3 2 3 2 3 2

Not absolutely certain but I would guess 1936 - 1965 all JAPs.

Once again, another excellent issue of Classic Speedway, especially the interviews with Malcolm Simmons and Tony Robinson and the article on Jack Young. However, I was very disappointed with Philip Dalling's article, entitled "Eternal divide of Roundheads and Cavaliers." He likens those who "debunk" the Hoskins myth as Roundheads because they are too dour and apparently don't recognise what the greatest Cavalier of them all, Johnnie Hoskins, did for the sport. He says, "I find the attempts to debunk the role Johnnie played in the sport's development, which emerge quite regularly from what I regard as the roundhead fraternity somewhat unpleasant." As one of those who have attempted to get past the myth that Johnnie Hoskins both invented speedway and then brought it to Great Britain, I take great exception to this characterisation. I personally have the greatest respect for Johnnie Hoskins and all he did for speedway. After all, my first visit to speedway and the team I still regard as MY team was New Cross (see my avatar). And who was the promoter there? Why, none other than Roarin' Johnnie Hoskins. He was undoubtedly one of the great showmen of the sport and did much to keep the sport in the forefront of the public eye through his personality and efforts to find ways of publicising the sport. It's a shame there aren't too many around like him today. But, as a historian, I try to get at the truth of what happened in our sport and its origin and the oft repeated fact, begun by Hoskins himself, that speedway started in West Maitland in 1923 at a meeting organised by himself, is just not true. Not only do I find it interesting to delve into the origins of the sport for its own sake but I think we also owe it to those other pioneers who played such a big part in the origins of speedway whose memory has been completely obliterated by the Hoskins' myth.

I have a filled in programme for England v. Sweden at Hackney on 21st June (not 20th) 1974. Jansson scored 6; Selmosson, 0

Anyway, where were you both? Did we meet in a previous life!?

No problem, Robbie. It would be interesting if anyone else does have a filled in programme. Also, we've discovered that the meeting might have been unique anyway, what with 19 helmet covers coming off and all four riders finishing in every race but one, it was well worth looking at!

Yes, I was at the meeting and it's my own filled in programme.

The times I have are: Heat 14: 77.4 Heat 15: 75.6 Heat 16: 76.0 Heat 17: 76.2 Heat 18: 79.0 Heat 19: 78.0 Heat 20: 77.2 Don't you think it a bit strange that all the times you have are .0something?

My programme has the second half times in tenths as well.

Had another look. The only other thing I can see is that nobody fell throughout the entire meeting. P.S. and if Barry Crowson hadn't had engine failure in the last race all four riders would have finished in every race.

I was there and just looked up my programme. The main thing I seem to have noted down at the time was that there were 19 losses of helmet covers during the evening.