stratton

I am of the same opinion as you RP,lets move on if he stuffs up again badly well that is a different matter.I have made endless mistakes in my life, but the people around me have given me another chance that is how i am with other people.It takes alot more Guts to forgive and give someone another chance who are we to judge? to do that you have got to be squeaky clean and not many of us are.

To old Dave am i wrong Dave? was the NL a crap product.?

It is not just me then mdmc82? if you don't agree with the bloke he acts like a child who has just had his sweets taken off of him.

On this subject about the old NL you have not got a clue,so you might as well shut up and move on.Believe me it was a tough league to ride in,anyone who saw it would understand that UNLIKE yourself.If you had just said you believed the PL was a better and a harder product i could understand that go back to Henry his post a very good one he had a valid case.Unlike yourself he did not make the silly comment about the league being full of Journeyman and full of second rate MEDIOCRE riders.Three of us supplied endless top riders that graced the NL over a period for you you ignored it i supplied a few of the second/string reserve BL riders that rode NL that went on and made the BL what it was a tough one.You then basically said most of them were crap how would YOU know you didn't see many of them ride.So at the end of the day Witcher is saying all those people from the year 1969 who watched regular NL racing must of been watching crap MEDIOCRE riders after all that's why it is the second division.? You need to understand the NL was a hard one,because it had a mix up of all different ages from a 16 year old Lee to a 47/48 veteran Mckinlay.It served its purpose in a way giving riders an apprenticeship race time and in those days it was hard to go full time in the old BL. Boothroyd,Littlechild,Oliver all great speedway men loaned Carter,Lee,Collins out first they did not plunge them straight into the BL does that not tell you something.?

My English is good anough to debate with the likes of you,oh sorry no one really debates with you do they unless they agree with you.The NL from my way of thinking you know nothing about it to be honest,you never saw half of the riders if any that i named.Yet your disgusting remark about past riders was uncalled for, tyler exposed you early on and you have been in a little strop ever since.Your best bet is to give Gustix a tinkle he will put you straight about the MEDIOCRE NL have a listen you might LEARN something.

Not a rant at all,but disgusted in your comments about past riders alot of them you don't even know who they are.

I hope so.

Thats fine i am gutted about tonight to be honest well done to the Lions they have a good spirit in there camp.

Judge us with a fit Morris and Charles at reserve,chuffed Darcy is up and running roll on Monday.

Give the bloke a break eh,if he messes up again fine then keep knocking him.Oh i forgot you have never made a mistake in your life?i bet you have loads of skeletons in your cupboard.

A spliff is a drug and i don't think we can hang Darcy quite yet for a few of the incidents he has been involved with lets be honest hardly Broadmoor stuff is it.

We will beat them over two legs i believe our top five will do the business.

You have been disrespectfull to all those riders i have named some no longer with us you should know better you know a few dont you? i respect any rider who has the balls to ride and entertain us not that you have SEEN many of them ride if any? At times your comments are so BRUTAL,and totally uncalled for to be honest you act like a spoilt child who has to win an a arguement at any cost.SAD man slag me off by all means,water off a ducks back but don't slag the riders of the past off unless you have the balls to tell them to there FACE which i doubt very much. Pointless why? because it is different to the rubbish you have spouted on this subject.

But the guest and Howarth would not of got more than 15 points so far,and by the sound of it the Czech is on the pace at least.

I will not mention any top class riders in this list these riders were BL second/ string reserve riders some better some even reached British finals winners/and higher.All well respected started in the NL, Auffrett,Bastable,N.Evitts,Pendlebury,Janke,Kennedy,Ferreira,Holloway,Hunt,Flatman,Jolly,Etheridge,Glover,M.Hines,Rossiter,Knight,Cross, Cartwright,Johns,Middleditch,Gagen,Finch,Galvin,Maxfield,Turner,Gachet,Dixon,Graham,Gugielmi,Mullett,Hewlett did well a massive loss) Mckeon,Howgego,Cox,Harding(massive loss) Drury,Woods,Herne,Weatherby,Geer,Lanham,Greer,J.Owen,T.Lomas,P.Carr,L.Carr,D.Kennett,Hunter,Mckinna,Reg.Wilson,Underwood,Thorp,White,Tyrer,Wigg,Richardson,Sampson,M.Piddock,Willmott,Thomas,Plant, Perks, Peterson.A few there some underachieved bigtime but my point was the old NL/ D2 served a purpose and it was far from MEDIOCRE.

Nonsense, on this subject myself, Gavan, Tyler have named quite a few riders already that have graced the NL and we can name alot more from say 1969 up until the 90s.Also we can name alot of bread/ butter riders who went on to be decent BL riders so i am not just talking about the Collins of this world .You have made a silly statement tyler exposed you,you said it was full of JOURNEYMAN and it was MEDIOCRE that is wrong do you still stick to that comedy statement.?

You don't know what you are talking about end of,not that you ever see any of the racing.The racing was not bad and it certainly was not MEDIOCRE it was good anough for riders to learn there craft and progress. ie) Jessup,.Collins,Lee,Carter, Crump,x2 (ect) not bad eh or were they all mediocre? This is your worst arguement ever debate well you never debate do i think the old NL was it MEDIOCRE no i don't but it is my opinion only i don't think that is a silly statement. Good post Henry and you make a valid point you could well be right but the difference between you and Witcher is that you have never said the NL was full of Journeyman and was mediocre at best.

Believe me it was was far from MEDIOCRE and i take people's opinion who i respect who watched regular NL racing alot more seriously than your poorly thought out belief it is so odvious you did not see NL racing.I would love to here what Tsunami had to think about those really good Newcastle sides over the years were they full of mediocrity!! in the old NL.

The British league did. Mauger,Collins,Sjosten,)Louis,Sanders,Davey. )Betts,Lee, Turner.) Kennett, Moran Woods.) Gundersen,Penhall, Grahame, Collins. ) Wilson Jessup Boulger.) Mauger Autrey,Titman) Ashby Kilby Andersson) Shirra Andersson Jonsson ) Just a few there over different years the BL was very good up to about 1986 in my opinion.There were weak teams of course but most of those were very good at home and had big home advantages.A thing that you FORGET is most sides then had a proper number 1 how many are there in the EL now?i have to say if you cant see that the level then was a much higher level then maybe i need glasses.

At the moment we all know the GP series has not got the best riders riding for whatever reason.Should Emil have to qualify to ? i think not i would love a way of getting Ward,Emil,Greg Laguta in the series without them this series has not got the best riders in the world in it.

Cannot agree with that Grachan,also the likes of Owen, Lawson (ect) they were in there safety zone bloody good riders earned decent money scoring points of course to ride full time in the BL you had to be pretty decent.The point i was replying to was Witcher saying that the NL was easy, and full of JOURNEYMAN tyler has proved him wrong on that score.I certainly am not saying the PL is not better,but i do agree that as a example Martin Yeates would find this EL alot easier than the BL he was involved in. He will get a wildcard for Melbourne and surely he will get a pick for next years series? saying that KIldemand must deserve one also.

You have not grasped that nobody were disputing the PL is a decent product personally i prefer it to the EL.But if you go through the years say from 1969 the NL has produced Collins,x4 Lee,Wilkinson,Davis,Louis, Crump,Havelock,Boyce,Loram,G.Kennett,Holden,Jessup,Silver,Adams,Schofield,Wiltshire,Wigg.That is 20 named off my head Gavan also has named a load also to my point is the NL was not just a league that a 47 year old Ken Mckinlay rode in ( journeyman ) it produced alot of good British riders.For me though to go away in the NL and win was very hard to do most had very good home riders and there were some tough characters around then real team men.

I would move on if i were you because basically you said the NL was not very good WRONG my first point was that a young 16 year old novice took the NL by storm that was a hell of an achievement. Ask Mike Lee if the NL was a piece of cake riding against the likes of Eddie Argall, Jack Millen ,Arthur Browning (ect). Now i am saying no more on the subject as i know where this is going believe me the NL was a hard league give it the RESPECT it deserves. You forgot PUK.

The bloke was completely right, what a foolish thing for you to say the NL was only full of journeyman you can't be RIGHT all the time can you ? you should of done your research.

Great man i first see him ride in 69 and my uncle used to say you might as well just write a maximum in the programme.He was certainly the most exciting rider i ever saw an awkward style but a flat out racer could he of won it in 72?I think so Barry and Ole were the best riders in that final but it was not to be i often thought Phil wouldn't it be great if Barry could of helped Ward for a bit all that wisdom and know how at the highest level.