Grachan

Didn't Tai win as a wildcard first time round? Havvy winning the World Title was probably the biggest shock result in my time at least. Much more so than Muller.

I don't know why so much kudos is given to BBC Sports Personality of the Year. It hasn't meant a lot for many years now. There was a time when anyone could vote for whoever they wanted - although it seems that even that was filtered anyway. These days it means little more than winning I'm a Celebrity or Strictly Come Dancing. Just an evening phone vote - which has now, apparently, been made even more of a closed shop to ensure they get who they want. As soon as it became like REality TV it became pretty pointless really.

I agree, although looking back at the British World Champions since I started going in 1974, if any of them were made of the same stuff as Woffinden then it would be Peter Collins.

A lot of it, I think, goes back to the myth propogated at the time that if you didn't ride in the UK then you weren't any good. I also used to have a video about Ivan Mauger, calked Circuits of Gold, in which Ivan's wife talked about Ivan beating himself up trying to emulate stuff that Egon Muller was doing.

No way was Egon Muller a shock winner. I went to that meeting, and beforehand pretty much everyone on our coach thought he might win. He might not have won it on a Grand Prix system, but on a one-off in Germany he was one of the favourites.

I don't think many - if any - riders have the luxury of deciding where they want to ride these days. Most are probably just glad to get a team place wherever they can be fitted in, what with points limits, average restrictions etc. Even the World Champion was surplus to requirements this year, and while he was seemingly happy to move to Somerset, if they hadn't decided to come in for him then he would not have been there.

Maybe people are waiting to make sure he actually achieves it first!

It wasn't the same for both. Somerset missed out on 4/5 Holder rides, Poole missed out on 3/4 from Kurtz, as he had one ride (his exclusion). That one extra ride may well have seen Somerset through.

A fabulous finish to what could have been a disaster after the delays at the beginning. I was rooting for Somerset, so was disappointed that they lost out - but what away to finish, with the move from Bomber. I thing Doyle was looking round too much in that race. Had he kept his head down and just gone for the win I think he would have won it. The Rebels were disadvantaged big time by Holder getting wiped out. Although both riders were injured, Holder was the innocent party in the crash. Plus he missed all his rides, but Somerset couldn't use Doyle as a replacement. It reminded me a bit of Swindon last year, with the side struggling in the middle heats due to the long gaps between Doyle's races. Doyle's exclusion could have gone either way really. No doubt he laid the bike down, but the start itself could be called unsatisfactory as the riders did bump. No argument either way, really. Now that Somerset are out, I would like to see Poole win the final - mainly because there is no centre green at King's Lynn and I find that SO annoying.

I think you are being over-sensitive. It is just a quicker way of describing the idea of the PL and CL merging. If they merged, then they would merge into one big league instead of two smaller ones. Nobody thinks the NL doesn't exist.

Surely it would be good business for Berwick, Redcar and Scunthorpe to have teams like King's Lynn and Poole in town? Why is speedway so obsessed with getting teams exactly equal? The teams would be built under the same points limits, or they could ride in the NL if they couldn't compete at CL level. Speedway really needs the top division to be a decent size, even if it is set at current CL level. If nobody will move up, what if the 7 PL teams say that they intend to drop down to the CL. What would happen then?

There you go. Five points.

So what's the point of the 7.96 GSA then?

How will his average go up if he scores 6, other than by withdrawing from the meeting before he has all his rides?

Suppose there was a CL points limit of 42.5 set. A typical Swindon side might be: Tobiasz Musielak 8.59 Adam Ellis 8.20 David Bellego 7.80 Stefan Nielsen 6.82 Zach Wajtknecht 5.31 Connor Mountain 3.62 Anders Rowe 2.00 42.34 (Providing my averages are correct, that's 6 "Swindon" riders and whoever fitted in at the end!) That immediately leaves Nick Morris free to ride for Lakeside/Rye House, plus Troy Bachelor also free. And surely there are riders out there in Europe and in the NL that can also be used. There's one 2018 NL rider right there in the Swindon team.

Batch has gone from 8.48 to 7.96 in the last month. As long as he averages 8.00 tonight he'll be fine. They should have gone old-skool tonight. Fireworks, moped races, flour fights, burning Rosco's trousers - that sort of thing.

Typical attitude that will get us nowhere. They have to work together, not see each other as competitors. If those 5 clubs joined with the CL clubs, it would not be a case of anyone moving up or down. That would then be the top league.

Much as I'd like to see the top division remaining strong, a league of 5 team is ridiculous. Given the choice of a strong top league of 5 sides or a big top league of 18, with the current riders spread out, plus a possible bit of space for some new overseas stars, I'd go with the second option every time. I wonder why Somerset won't commit, as they've had a successful season. Has using the World Champion caused financial hardships, I wonder.

Two instead of three? Or two plus NL?

With Kerr and Vissing removed, the mean team average comes to 44.54. And is still over 126. Surely teams can make an effort to bring in riders. Some sides could easily find a replacement for Vaculik/Pieszczek, so they can stay in. The league can fit 7 riders in a side. There are also NL riders around that could be used at reserve. Swindon, for example, could have Anders Rowe. No need to bring in some "6 riders a side" set up that would just put some people off.

I think you are all taking it far too literally. There's bound to be a few mistakes. It's just a quick cut and paste job to see if two leagues are viable to join as one league. I think it shows they are, as it shows that the current riders can be spread out over the teams and the league can be run on a Championship level without dumbing down on the top PL riders. That was my point, and I think that should be the discussion here, not if I accidentally put two averages for a few riders in my haste. But enjoy doing that if that's what you'd rather do. Why not use your expertise to put a few imaginary sides together under a CL format instead? Might be more interesting. See how viable this could be. Guess we won't be needing Birmingham then.

Batch has nicely maneuvered himself below 8.00 this past month, so it will be interesting to see if he stays there.

Thanks. One Josh Bates consigned to history. I kept Robson as it is based on this year's figures. Replaced a Bates with Parkinson-Blackburn on 2.00 in the top 126. That makes the total averages 812.56. Divide by 18 you get 45.14, so still over 45 per 7 riders. As I said, it's not an exact science here. Just a quick check through to see if such a thing as joining the leagues is viable. I believe this proves it is.

That's where it falls down. You are diluting again, and alienating PL sides - forcing riders out.

This is where the whole thing probably falls down, but it's looking a a principle rather than an exact science. The league could run to that strength and not weaken, and dead wood/changes can be replaced. Anyway: Robert Lambert 12.00 Jason Doyle 11.65 Krzysztof Kasprzak 10.97 Sam Masters 10.82 Hans Andersen 10.40 Martin Vaculik 10.40 Max Fricke 10.40 Troy Batchelor 10.35 Jacob Thorssell 9.97 Craig Cook 9.96 Niels Kristian Iversen 9.53 Rohan Tungate 9.49 Kenneth Bjerre 9.31 Brady Kurtz 9.24 Peter Kildemand 9.23 Jack Holder 9.14 Richard Lawson 9.05 Danny King 8.83 Rory Schlein 8.79 Nick Morris 8.76 Ricky Wells 8.76 Tobiasz Musielak 8.59 Steve Worrall 8.55 Erik Riss 8.50 Krystian Pieszczek 8.45 Kacper Woryna 8.35 Josh Auty 8.33 Charles Wright 8.21 Josh Grajczonek 8.20 Adam Ellis 8.20 Scott Nicholls 8.19 Chris Harris 8.15 Michael Palm Toft 8.12 Lasse Bjerre 8.07 Linus Sundstrom 7.97 David Bellego 7.80 Richie Worrall 7.57 Jason Garrity 7.56 Claus Vissing 7.55 Kyle Howarth 7.49 Claus Vissing 7.49 Nicolai Klindt 7.35 Ulrich Ostergaard 7.35 Lewis Kerr 7.31 Edward Kennett 7.25 Thomas Jorgensen 7.25 Lewis Kerr 7.18 Jake Allen 7.12 Josh Bates 7.03 Ben Barker 6.97 Aaron Summers 6.94 Ty Proctor 6.92 Rene Bach 6.88 Stefan Nielsen 6.82 Frederik Jakobsen 6.77 Dan Bewley 6.77 Ludvig Lindgren 6.77 Nikolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.72 Stuart Robson 6.69 Lewis Rose 6.67 Nico Covatti 6.65 Josh Bates 6.54 Victor Palovaara 6.50 Nicolaj Busk Jakobsen 6.50 Kevin Doolan 6.40 Rasmus Jensen 6.40 Lewis Rose 6.25 Tero Aarnio 6.21 Mateusz Szczepaniak 6.20 Cameron Heeps 6.19 Mason Campton 6.09 Ashley Morris 6.04 Kyle Newman 6.02 Jye Etheridge 5.95 David Howe 5.90 Mark Riss 5.79 Todd Kurtz 5.76 Bradley Wilson-Dean 5.74 Nike Lunna 5.73 Ben Morley 5.69 Daniel Gappmaier 5.68 Matej Kus 5.68 Paul Starke 5.66 Jonas B Andersen 5.49 Josh Pickering 5.41 Zach Wajtknecht 5.31 Theo Pijper 5.25 Matthew Wethers 5.24 Jonas Jeppesen 5.20 Kasper Andersen 5.20 John Lindman 5.20 Michael Hartel 5.20 Damien Drodz 5.20 Tobias Busch 5.07 Dimitri Berge 5.05 Jan Graversen 4.93 Joel Andersen 4.89 James Shanes 4.88 Emil Grondal 4.77 Ellis Perks 4.70 Mikkel B Andersen 4.69 Tom Bacon 4.52 Fernando Garcia 4.47 Simon Lambert 4.43 James Sarjeant 4.42 Carl Wilkinson 4.38 Max Clegg 4.23 Nathan Greaves 4.20 Matt Williamson 4.14 Broc Nicol 4.00 Gino Manzares 4.00 Jordan Stewart 4.00 Max Ruml 4.00 William Lawson 4.00 James Sarjeant 3.90 Danyon Hume 3.84 Connor Mountain 3.62 Jack Smith 3.07 Mitchell Davey 3.00 Alfie Bowtell 2.34 Georgie Wood 2.32 Jack Thomas 2.31 Danny Phillips 2.00 David Wallinger 2.00 Drew Kemp 2.00 Jack Parkinson-Blackburn 2.00 Joe Lawlor 2.00 Kyle Bickley 2.00