1 valve Posted Thursday at 11:10 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 11:10 AM 17 minutes ago, IainB said: Personally I think that is the answer, obviously it's not the whole answer but it's the foundation that you start from to rebuild British Speedway. Add this to a complete overhaul of the race format and race night experience and it's a start. I agree with your sentiments. However, I’m not sure this type of drastic action will work out quite as well as we would hope becoming more of a “death by a thousand cuts” rather than a cure for the problem. Preferring evolution rather than revolution I believe the best way forward would be the formation of a “Super League” carved out of the best available riders making up a max of eight teams spread evenly across the country. Such teams/promotions committing to a clearly defined programme of continued improvement to the product on offer. The remaining promotions would work to fixed (low) budgets to run semi professional events the purpose being to provide a basis for growth in riders ability and worth to the senior clubs. Of course the biggest challenge the sport faces in the UK is the self serving, self preservation of individual promoters which exists to the detriment of our beloved sport. Frankly whilst that remains the case we can debate alternatives as much as we like but to no avail. There is history of a sport bankrupt in its own right, on its knees and run by self serving owners with no future which is now so big it boasts the single richest annual sporting event held on the planet. If anybody is interested in how that was achieved by the battles won by a single person against rich & powerful egos you should look up Pete Rozelle, who without there would be no NFL and no SuperBowl. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marko Posted Thursday at 11:27 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 11:27 AM Post world war 2 there was a shortage of riders, they didn’t resort to doubling up, they just made sure there were plenty of training schools to make more riders. Do away with all this overpriced crap they have on bikes now, run them to a budget so costs come down. Make the sport semi pro, back in the NL days riders had other jobs, likes of Moggo rode speedway as a hobby and it didn’t do him any harm. The current setup doesn’t work and will never work, trying something else won’t kill the sport, it’s dying anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcone44 Posted Thursday at 01:19 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 01:19 PM what ever they do its going to be 2 steps back before they can go forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted Thursday at 01:54 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 01:54 PM British Speedway is in far to much of a pickle to make "1 Big League" work. Even 4 man teams would be a stretch, as far to many riders won't want to be available for weekend matches. They all want to be available to the paymasters of Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch1958a Posted Thursday at 02:40 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 02:40 PM 45 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: British Speedway is in far to much of a pickle to make "1 Big League" work. Even 4 man teams would be a stretch, as far to many riders won't want to be available for weekend matches. They all want to be available to the paymasters of Poland. just use the days we currently do until Poland goes ** up or invaded by Russia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted Thursday at 04:42 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:42 PM (edited) 5 hours ago, 1 valve said: I agree with your sentiments. However, I’m not sure this type of drastic action will work out quite as well as we would hope becoming more of a “death by a thousand cuts” rather than a cure for the problem. Preferring evolution rather than revolution I believe the best way forward would be the formation of a “Super League” carved out of the best available riders making up a max of eight teams spread evenly across the country. Such teams/promotions committing to a clearly defined programme of continued improvement to the product on offer. The remaining promotions would work to fixed (low) budgets to run semi professional events the purpose being to provide a basis for growth in riders ability and worth to the senior clubs. Of course the biggest challenge the sport faces in the UK is the self serving, self preservation of individual promoters which exists to the detriment of our beloved sport. Frankly whilst that remains the case we can debate alternatives as much as we like but to no avail. There is history of a sport bankrupt in its own right, on its knees and run by self serving owners with no future which is now so big it boasts the single richest annual sporting event held on the planet. If anybody is interested in how that was achieved by the battles won by a single person against rich & powerful egos you should look up Pete Rozelle, who without there would be no NFL and no SuperBowl. Excellent post... Rozelle was initially a properly disliked Commissioner by many owners, (and some players with big personal sponsorship)... However, he knew that so many working in a "I am all right Jack" SILO, couldn't ever be successful for the sport overall... As he knew that one day the historically successful teams would end up playing themselves and no one else!! Which would mean sponsors and TV deserting in droves.. Sharing revenues equally, inc official merchandise regardless of which team sold most, and having national league sponsors front and centre, in front of any local, or personal agreements, (and sharing the money equally), saw the sport generically move forward... The historically big teams are still pretty much the same ones, as, organically they are the biggest, but the "cannon fodder" teams nowadays at least have a chance, and big money coming in from shared TV, merchandise and sponsorship agreements, regardless of position in their conference... A perfect blueprint for UK Speedway I would suggest... In fact, I suggested the same thing well over a decade ago on here!!! British Speedway should be "The Brand" with one overarching "leader" who is given complete autonomy, but held accountable by the owners, with every track being a franchise that can be lost if that franchise doesn't meet the standards expected of the overall generic business of "British Speedway Ltd"... All TV money, sponsorship and merchandise money, pooled with each team getting an equal share regardless of their own sales or TV matches... UK Speedway will fall together, if they don't work together as a collective... Edited Thursday at 04:53 PM by mikebv 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted Thursday at 05:11 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 05:11 PM 24 minutes ago, mikebv said: Excellent post... Rozelle was initially a properly disliked Commissioner by many owners, (and some players with big personal sponsorship)... However, he knew that so many working in a "I am all right Jack" SILO, couldn't ever be successful for the sport overall... As he knew that one day the historically successful teams would end up playing themselves and no one else!! Which would mean sponsors and TV deserting in droves.. Sharing revenues equally, inc official merchandise regardless of which team sold most, and having national league sponsors front and centre, in front of any local, or personal agreements, (and sharing the money equally), saw the sport generically move forward... The historically big teams are still pretty much the same ones, as, organically they are the biggest, but the "cannon fodder" teams nowadays at least have a chance, and big money coming in from shared TV, merchandise and sponsorship agreements, regardless of position in their conference... A perfect blueprint for UK Speedway I would suggest... In fact, I suggested the same thing well over a decade ago on here!!! British Speedway should be "The Brand" with one overarching "leader" who is given complete autonomy, but held accountable by the owners, with every track being a franchise that can be lost if that franchise doesn't meet the standards expected of the overall generic business of "British Speedway Ltd"... All TV money, sponsorship and merchandise money, pooled with each team getting an equal share regardless of their own sales or TV matches... UK Speedway will fall together, if they don't work together as a collective... Spot on. it is just so very unlikely (and sad) that today’s UK promoters would go along with such a plan given the organisational structure that is the BSPA which in itself exists in a time warp. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted Thursday at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted Thursday at 07:19 PM 2 hours ago, 1 valve said: Spot on. it is just so very unlikely (and sad) that today’s UK promoters would go along with such a plan given the organisational structure that is the BSPA which in itself exists in a time warp. I'm currently reading the late John Berry's book he was picked to be the head honcho in the late 80's and I reckon would have given it a good go but it all fell apart before it got started due to restrictions put on him from the get go. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted Friday at 07:01 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:01 AM One big isn’t going to solve the issue. The sport needs a radical overhaul overseen from someone independent. one big league would see the admission cost frozen at the current premiership clubs & an increase at the championship clubs to watch a weaker product. That’s something I wouldn’t pay for. Any tweaks like one league, 6 man teams all of those things are way too late. If they want to save the sport in the uk as a team event it needs radical change now in how it’s ran, administrated & and end to the Micky mouse feel factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelShoe Posted Friday at 07:09 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 07:09 AM (edited) Yes. Edited Friday at 07:12 AM by SteelShoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch1958a Posted Friday at 08:42 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 08:42 AM 1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: One big isn’t going to solve the issue. The sport needs a radical overhaul overseen from someone independent. one big league would see the admission cost frozen at the current premiership clubs & an increase at the championship clubs to watch a weaker product. That’s something I wouldn’t pay for. Any tweaks like one league, 6 man teams all of those things are way too late. If they want to save the sport in the uk as a team event it needs radical change now in how it’s ran, administrated & and end to the Micky mouse feel factor. be specific though - radical change? What like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Friday at 09:26 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:26 AM (edited) 44 minutes ago, ch1958a said: be specific though - radical change? What like? 250cc engines, 5 rider teams, one league, no doubling up, graded riders... Radical change to race format, maybe first 4 races programmed the rest left to the discretion of the team manager, team in front to choose first, inclusion of different format races within the match, one lap dashes, devil take the hind most etc. Full sponsored 2nd half with junior races Edited Friday at 09:29 AM by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch1958a Posted Friday at 09:29 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:29 AM 2 minutes ago, IainB said: 250cc engines why not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted Friday at 09:30 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:30 AM Just now, ch1958a said: why not The best racing I've seen by far, consistently, over the last few years have been under 16's on 250cc engines in the SGP3. Imagine what the pro's could do on them 🤔 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted Friday at 09:35 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 09:35 AM 48 minutes ago, ch1958a said: be specific though - radical change? What like? A complete bottom to top overhaul there isn’t a silver bullet that will solve the sports issues. That’s why it needs someone independent to conduct a routes & branches review. Combining the leagues won’t reduce costs & wont increase income either though attendance levels, tv or sponsorship income. 1 league to attempt to cut costs has been tried before & failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted Friday at 02:24 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 02:24 PM 4 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: A complete bottom to top overhaul there isn’t a silver bullet that will solve the sports issues. That’s why it needs someone independent to conduct a routes & branches review. Combining the leagues won’t reduce costs & wont increase income either though attendance levels, tv or sponsorship income. 1 league to attempt to cut costs has been tried before & failed. One league could work, if that one league wasn't created based on UK speedways version of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Things have just got to be different if change is going to be successful. If league/team racing is to continue and one league is desirable and doubling up is to be abolished then using the availability of competent current riders there is just about a sufficient number to make up eight teams. However, who those eight teams should be needs a lot of thinking about. Maybe four of the current Premier league promotions could cut it against a correctly formulated criteria. But to even make a start on such a review, the current group of promoters would need to put aside their own agendas/egos and bank accounts and work together in the best interest of UK speedway - this is more than probably too much to ask or expect. So although I hate to say it - Our best intentions to help the sustainability of UK speedway with ideas worthy of consideration will ultimately fall on deaf ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted Friday at 08:16 PM Report Share Posted Friday at 08:16 PM 5 hours ago, 1 valve said: One league could work, if that one league wasn't created based on UK speedways version of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Things have just got to be different if change is going to be successful. If league/team racing is to continue and one league is desirable and doubling up is to be abolished then using the availability of competent current riders there is just about a sufficient number to make up eight teams. However, who those eight teams should be needs a lot of thinking about. Maybe four of the current Premier league promotions could cut it against a correctly formulated criteria. But to even make a start on such a review, the current group of promoters would need to put aside their own agendas/egos and bank accounts and work together in the best interest of UK speedway - this is more than probably too much to ask or expect. So although I hate to say it - Our best intentions to help the sustainability of UK speedway with ideas worthy of consideration will ultimately fall on deaf ears. It will always fall on deaf ears…the writing has been on the wall since the late 80s. Since then lots of minor changes, the odd good idea among lots of frankly idiotic ones. Supposed cost cutting, weakening of the product none of which has turned the tide. when one big league was tried in 95 & 96 I think that gave you a 18 club premier league. On the face of it a great idea & should have worked, however ultimately the resulting product wasn’t good enough for the former top fight club & to expensive for the former lower league ones. The only difference if they did it now is you would end up with 9 club league, 10 at best. Having said that I can’t see how the current league set up can continue. Which brings its own problems for the likes of Ipswich, Belle Vue & Sheffield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted Saturday at 04:59 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 04:59 PM Steachman said on BSN last night that it looks like it will be going 1 league next season. But 2 clubs are refusing that. assume that will be belle Vue and Ipswich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Bloke Posted Saturday at 05:02 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 05:02 PM 2 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Steachman said on BSN last night that it looks like it will be going 1 league next season. But 2 clubs are refusing that. assume that will be belle Vue and Ipswich Poole maybe, if they can't have Weds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted Saturday at 05:04 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 05:04 PM 4 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Steachman said on BSN last night that it looks like it will be going 1 league next season. But 2 clubs are refusing that. assume that will be belle Vue and Ipswich Suppose if that's the only way for speedway to survive in the UK, suppose it's do it or pack up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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