YeOldPitGate Posted 17 hours ago Report Share Posted 17 hours ago 5 minutes ago, SJA said: I cannot see how one league can work at the moment as I suspect to keep club like Poole happy it would run on most nights. If this was the case then riders who ride in Poland and I'm not taking about the stars like Doyle, Kurtz, Bewley, Fricke, Holder etc, buy secondary riders like Pickering, Masters, Lawson, Douglas etc would find it almost impossible to rider in the UK. So the alternative is to have fixed race nights but then the issue is clubs like Poole will not like that. So is the realistic proposition Monday Wednesday and Thursday as UK club nights. Obviously it means that you loose some riders who are contracted to rider in Denmark but then with this how happy are Friday and weekend clubs going to be. Maybe the solution is to have two divisions. Prem and Champ only. The Prem anything goes and you have a minimum points limit to build above, then the champ would be at a slightly lower level than this season as the reserve berths would be filled by NDL standard riders like Tom Spencer. Its super difficult but how much longer can the current ever worsening status quo limp on ? if we assume Brum are gone, Oxford just do champ, nobody with any financial sense wants to move up, if Sheffield and Leicester did stop running that leaves Lynn, Belle Vue and Ippo to drop down given two are reasonably wealthy clubs by Speedway standards could three more clubs be fitted into the championship and premier league is done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted 17 hours ago Report Share Posted 17 hours ago On 7/14/2025 at 10:56 PM, gjcone44 said: the poles have got 72, under 21 riders trying to qualify for under 21 final.!!! Has anyone asked the Poles if that want to base an U21 team over here? Could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted 16 hours ago Report Share Posted 16 hours ago You have to realise that 99% of the general public have no interest in speedway, they think it's very boring. I'm afraid that UK speedway is done, it's just a matter of time... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 16 hours ago Report Share Posted 16 hours ago 1 hour ago, Fromafar said: Another reason regarding Admission prices is paying over the odds to meet mediocre riders demands. In fairness... The promoters put demands on them to have the best kit... Which costs several thousands for two bikes minimum... To help them win something they shockingly then devalue by using such a ludicrous operating model.. An incredible business plan.. Personally, I think they should keep the top riders and reduce the "middle order" and the "RS"... As, the top riders must bring a few more in than would ordinarily go... As everyone knows, a struggling business needs to either increase turnover or reduce costs... Now, given increasing turnover seems to be a challenge, then cost reduction has to be the way forwards.. And the easiest and quickest way to do that is by reducing head count.. However, a business with seven employees wouldn't lose its top two people, as that would close the thing down... Instead it would make savings further down the line, and hope the top two would drive enough turnover... For me, five man teams, no make weights, all over 4.5 point average... That would release seven 3rd HLs/SS's immediately to potentially cover either as official "squad riders" or short tern replacements... With a six team top league, not a bad starting point to bring some desperately needed credibility.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted 16 hours ago Report Share Posted 16 hours ago 26 minutes ago, mikebv said: In fairness... The promoters put demands on them to have the best kit... Which costs several thousands for two bikes minimum... To help them win something they shockingly then devalue by using such a ludicrous operating model.. An incredible business plan.. Personally, I think they should keep the top riders and reduce the "middle order" and the "RS"... As, the top riders must bring a few more in than would ordinarily go... As everyone knows, a struggling business needs to either increase turnover or reduce costs... Now, given increasing turnover seems to be a challenge, then cost reduction has to be the way forwards.. And the easiest and quickest way to do that is by reducing head count.. However, a business with seven employees wouldn't lose its top two people, as that would close the thing down... Instead it would make savings further down the line, and hope the top two would drive enough turnover... For me, five man teams, no make weights, all over 4.5 point average... That would release seven 3rd HLs/SS's immediately to potentially cover either as official "squad riders" or short tern replacements... With a six team top league, not a bad starting point to bring some desperately needed credibility.. Agree with your post.I was mainly referring to the Championship regarding overpaid mediocre riders.Something will have to give IMO.Wouldn’t hold my breath though.🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 11 hours ago Report Share Posted 11 hours ago 4 hours ago, mikebv said: In fairness... The promoters put demands on them to have the best kit... Which costs several thousands for two bikes minimum... To help them win something they shockingly then devalue by using such a ludicrous operating model.. An incredible business plan.. Personally, I think they should keep the top riders and reduce the "middle order" and the "RS"... As, the top riders must bring a few more in than would ordinarily go... As everyone knows, a struggling business needs to either increase turnover or reduce costs... Now, given increasing turnover seems to be a challenge, then cost reduction has to be the way forwards.. And the easiest and quickest way to do that is by reducing head count.. However, a business with seven employees wouldn't lose its top two people, as that would close the thing down... Instead it would make savings further down the line, and hope the top two would drive enough turnover... For me, five man teams, no make weights, all over 4.5 point average... That would release seven 3rd HLs/SS's immediately to potentially cover either as official "squad riders" or short tern replacements... With a six team top league, not a bad starting point to bring some desperately needed credibility.. I'm normally on the same page as you Mike but think a championship standard league set up of say 12-14 five man teams is the way to go, I love seeing the top boys on tracks where they can truly display their skills but we can't afford them. I have said before when Rob Lambert turns up for one of his brief stints he's a brilliant rider to watch, but is probably on 4-6k per meeting and I reckon he won't add 50-100 on the gate the numbers just don't stack up. Look at Poole the other week 3k turning up to watch premier league second strings and two point men its about getting a team out that's there for the fans for 90% of meetings. The Ford's are shrewd they know moving up is financial suicide and they are a well run club look what's happended to Brum they signed Lindgren last season even with Wolves closed and the crowd numbers were still utterly terrible. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted 11 hours ago Report Share Posted 11 hours ago 7 hours ago, mikebv said: They have already had riding here, or brought in over the past two seasons... Woffy, Emil, Doyle, Bewley, Kurtz, Fricke, Holder, Lindgren, Holder, Janowski, MJJ,, Zagar, Kvech, Lidsey and B Cook... All either Ex World Champs, or GP winners, some being multiple GP winners, some are GP riders, others being well known names, or Polish top tier riders.. And most tracks have seen no increase in crowds, with some actually showing less... Yet their costs have increased by using these riders... How do you afford even more "top level riders?" so your crowds can magically grow? And as i said without them.there would be even less..No one can solve speedway problems that includes paying for top riders its far to late .But crowds wont ever get any better justbecause there are no guests etc and thinking getting 7 Dave Smiths to ride every week is somehow going to bring the crowds in . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted 11 hours ago Report Share Posted 11 hours ago 7 minutes ago, orion said: And as i said without them.there would be even less..No one can solve speedway problems that includes paying for top riders its far to late .But crowds wont ever get any better justbecause there are no guests etc and thinking getting 7 Dave Smiths to ride every week is somehow going to bring the crowds in . We have to distinguish between Premiership and Championship regarding attracting more or (less)fans.Championship attendances won’t be affected whatever way the sport goes in my opinion it’s down too it’s hardcore supporters and not attracting new fans in any great numbers.Dont know much about Premiership attendances ,whether big names are really making the difference but what I have seen on TV it not in good shape(attendance wise at most tracks).Interesting winter ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 20 minutes ago, Fromafar said: We have to distinguish between Premiership and Championship regarding attracting more or (less)fans.Championship attendances won’t be affected whatever way the sport goes in my opinion it’s down too it’s hardcore supporters and not attracting new fans in any great numbers.Dont know much about Premiership attendances ,whether big names are really making the difference but what I have seen on TV it not in good shape(attendance wise at most tracks).Interesting winter ahead. By my eye Leicester in the PL on a Thursday are not getting as big crowds as they were on Saturday's in the CL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlandred Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 16 minutes ago, IainB said: By my eye Leicester in the PL on a Thursday are not getting as big crowds as they were on Saturday's in the CL. Saturday night’s a proper speedway night!!! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 2 minutes ago, midlandred said: Saturday night’s a proper speedway night!!! I believe Plymouth's crowds are up since returning to Saturday's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 45 minutes ago, Fromafar said: We have to distinguish between Premiership and Championship regarding attracting more or (less)fans.Championship attendances won’t be affected whatever way the sport goes in my opinion it’s down too it’s hardcore supporters and not attracting new fans in any great numbers.Dont know much about Premiership attendances ,whether big names are really making the difference but what I have seen on TV it not in good shape(attendance wise at most tracks).Interesting winter ahead. Do you think Belle Vue and Ipswich would be getting the same numbers without t Emil Doyle ,Bradley and Bewley.No one saying they make the different but the crowds would be much lower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 6 minutes ago, IainB said: I believe Plymouth's crowds are up since returning to Saturday's I have always been surprised that Poland chose Friday, Saturday and Sunday for what is, after all, something part of the entertainment business.... Who would have thought that the weekend would attract the most attendees...? Same with the GP's .. Monday or Thursday for me should have been the call... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 4 minutes ago, orion said: Do you think Belle Vue and Ipswich would be getting the same numbers without t Emil Doyle ,Bradley and Bewley.No one saying they make the different but the crowds would be much lower Like I said I don’t know much about Premiership Attendances .Would they profitable in lower standard of League would be the question for me.Reading reports it would appear that Ipswich are the best Attendances in Premiership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, YeOldPitGate said: I'm normally on the same page as you Mike but think a championship standard league set up of say 12-14 five man teams is the way to go, I love seeing the top boys on tracks where they can truly display their skills but we can't afford them. I have said before when Rob Lambert turns up for one of his brief stints he's a brilliant rider to watch, but is probably on 4-6k per meeting and I reckon he won't add 50-100 on the gate the numbers just don't stack up. Look at Poole the other week 3k turning up to watch premier league second strings and two point men its about getting a team out that's there for the fans for 90% of meetings. The Ford's are shrewd they know moving up is financial suicide and they are a well run club look what's happended to Brum they signed Lindgren last season even with Wolves closed and the crowd numbers were still utterly terrible. My initial reaction was "one big league"... But, when you analyse how many riders will be needed I am not sure it could work... Even a 12 team league would need 60 riders, running on five per team.. And, if all the "top riders" went then that would leave around 70 required from the current set up... Is there 70 riders who want to race here, or good enough to race here if UK based? "One big league" would mean several meetings per week for some, and many overseas riders (even the journey men), wouldn't all sign up for that, thus meaning more riders required to replace them.. "One big league" seems to be the organic solution, but logistics would suggest it cannot happen.. Edited 10 hours ago by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted 10 hours ago Report Share Posted 10 hours ago 8 minutes ago, mikebv said: My initial reaction was "one big league"... But, when you analyse how many riders will be needed I am not sure it could work... Even a 12 team league would need 60 riders, running on five per team.. And, if all the "top riders" went then that would leave around 70 required from the current set up... Is there 70 riders who want to race here, or good enough to race here if UK based? "One big league" would mean several meetings per week for some, and many overseas riders (even the journey men), wouldn't all sign up for that, thus meaning more riders required to replace them.. "One big league" seems to be the organic solution, but logistics would suggest it cannot happen.. It is not just the number of riders that are or are not available that is an issue, it is the format/presentation that needs to change. Scratch races over two laps etc and a range of point gaining options are needed not just four laps of strung out races. The sad thing is nothing will change with the way the sport is run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 16 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Like I said I don’t know much about Premiership Attendances .Would they profitable in lower standard of League would be the question for me.Reading reports it would appear that Ipswich are the best Attendances in Premiership. Ipswich are fortunate as the area is truly a hotbed for the sport. It’s always difficult to put a figure on there attendance levels because Foxhall is so big. The capacity is 12000 so way above anything else in UK speedway. Last week v Belle Vue I would suggest circa 2000 were there & probably an average of 1700. One thing is for certain Jason & Emil has been a big draw myself & a few others have returned as regulars, old school friends who used to take the pee out of speedway now attend. Louis also seems to be extremely good at attracting sponsorship, a very good business man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moranboys Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 1 hour ago, IainB said: By my eye Leicester in the PL on a Thursday are not getting as big crowds as they were on Saturday's in the CL. Crowds will be bigger on a Saturday,it doesn't take Einstein to work out that it's a much better night to run speedway..kids not having to be in bed earlier for school...lots of people not working weekends...people not having to rush home from work to get to a meeting....it just makes sense full stop but will never happen mainly because of the monopoly of the mainstream sports channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 18 minutes ago, Moranboys said: Crowds will be bigger on a Saturday,it doesn't take Einstein to work out that it's a much better night to run speedway..kids not having to be in bed earlier for school...lots of people not working weekends...people not having to rush home from work to get to a meeting....it just makes sense full stop but will never happen mainly because of the monopoly of the mainstream sports channels. So bigger crowds on a Saturday and less to pay our for the "stars" hmm 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 9 hours ago Report Share Posted 9 hours ago 1 hour ago, mikebv said: I have always been surprised that Poland chose Friday, Saturday and Sunday for what is, after all, something part of the entertainment business.... Who would have thought that the weekend would attract the most attendees...? Same with the GP's .. Monday or Thursday for me should have been the call... Yeah, but how silly are the Poles going to feel as we move to a 4 day working week and Thursday is the new Friday... haha! Up Yours Poland! Oh, Hang On a minute... we don't have Thursdays actually do we! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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