mikebv Posted 7 hours ago Report Share Posted 7 hours ago 24 minutes ago, spin king said: I think Damien needs to check his gate receipts, when there is a meeting been live stream. Looking at the crowd last Thursday which was live streamed on BSN the crowds were definitely down, from previous weeks when there was no live stream. To attend a meeting costs £26 plus £4 for a programme, compare that to the price of a live stream in comfort of your home represents a decent saving, and even better if you can shared the costs between two of you. There is a cost of living crisis and money is tight and people will be looking ways to cut costs. I don't know whether other clubs have the same problem, but for me it is blindingly obvious that live streaming effects the crowds. The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 21 minutes ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 3 minutes ago, IainB said: If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? The Size and Prestige of The Competitions?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted 6 hours ago Report Share Posted 6 hours ago 8 minutes ago, IainB said: If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 19 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. Spot on... I think the largest fundamental mistake the majority of promoters have made is that many still, it appears, see the sport as, well that, a "proper" sport!! Even though they have pretty much removed that notion via their very own operating model.. Fans, on the other hand, (maybe even the majority of them?), see the sport as more "sports entertainment"... Which means, and has meant for a long time, that the "sport" is seen more as being in the entertainment business, rather than being seen as relevant, or indeed, has the required resonance and prestige, to be measured as purely "sport"... And, as "The Entertainment Pound" is under more pressure now than ever before, you need be innovative, exciting, great at marketing, and need to be "something different" to survive, never mind prosper.. None of these attributes definitely exist in money losing organisations that do the same old/same old each year.... But still expect things to change for the better by doing exactly the same old/same old, and "scratch their heads" when it never happens.. As I have said before, the Manchester GP's gives hope as 6500 were happy to lay out a lot of money to attend two Speedway meetings, with many of them Aces followers.. Which shows, promote something with some prestige, jeopardy, consequence and credibility (like in a "proper" sport), and you can still attract a very decent following.. "Pretend" it is a "proper" sport, and hope enough people will collude with you, and you are pretty much doomed to fail, especially in the 24/7 unforgiving scrutiny of the digital age.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Only anecdotal evidence from my own eyes, (as attendance numbers are never publicised are they?)... But, I attend the odd PO Qualifier now and again, probably once a season, and you can see a tangible drop off each year I have been to the NSS, (over the past five in particular).. The Grandstand used to be over circa two thirds full, (1300 or so), and the back straight about 500 to 600.. Now the Grandstand is around, I would say 1000, with around 300 to maybe 400 on the back straight.. The back straight can be spread out so it can disguise a drop off somewhat, however the Grandstand, particularly from bend four to just before the tapes, really shouts out how many no longer attend... Maybe more and more do what you do Mike and dont bother with the PO qualifiers? Seems more and more just come out for the play offs themselves and use BSN for the rest of the season, or those who still have an interest do. The close season shambles, a six team league and big gaps between meetings i would think have taken their toll too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent10 Posted 5 hours ago Report Share Posted 5 hours ago 55 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. Have to say what a great post, precisely what is happening with the modern market, kids are different today, nightclubs have virtually disappeared because bars are open late, entertainment during the week is a non starter for most because of the massive influx of gyms and social media platforms dictating how they should look and behave meaning their money will ultimately be spent there unless it’s a big night out (premier league darts for example), weekly events don’t cut it anymore sadly and speedway will teeter out within a few years, which is sad but inevitable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 4 hours ago Report Share Posted 4 hours ago 37 minutes ago, bellevueace said: Maybe more and more do what you do Mike and dont bother with the PO qualifiers? Seems more and more just come out for the play offs themselves and use BSN for the rest of the season, or those who still have an interest do. The close season shambles, a six team league and big gaps between meetings i would think have taken their toll too. I've noticed that the PO Semis now don't seem to bring too many more in either... Maybe down to being on Satellite TV?... Which, this year it obviously won't be so maybe more will attend...?. The lack of prestige, prize size for winning any of fhe comps, and lack of interest from non speedway media, must also obviously impact crowd sizes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 3 hours ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... 3 hours ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... Seems strange that most clubs stream and is no problem otherwise they would stop doing it not carry on with it. But it affects Sheffield's attendences a lot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 minute ago, LisaColette said: Seems strange that most clubs stream and is no problem otherwise they would stop doing it not carry on with it. But it affects Sheffield's attendences a lot? It was mentioned on the Aces Unofficial FB page by "someone" that the in house steam for the Aces is doing good business... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted 3 hours ago Report Share Posted 3 hours ago 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: It was mentioned on the Aces Unofficial FB page by "someone" that the in house steam for the Aces is doing good business... I suppose a lot could depend on how many neutral fans you get watching. Sure BV would get a few because of the track. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishersGate Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago Lots of fans warned promoters to get there finger out and starting promoting properly or you will lose fans. Unfortunately this season I am one of those fans who has been lost, haven't attended one meeting this year. I don't intend to go back unless things change. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago 2 minutes ago, FishersGate said: Lots of fans warned promoters to get there finger out and starting promoting properly or you will lose fans. Unfortunately this season I am one of those fans who has been lost, haven't attended one meeting this year. I don't intend to go back unless things change. No fixtures being published in advance would have meant less season ticket sales given no one knew if they would be available on the eventual dates.. The same (just) five teams visiting twice, and maybe more times in the KO Cup and PO's didn't exactly inspire.. And, at the end of the day, winning such small time cups and leagues is all a bit "meh" isn't it?.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted 2 hours ago Report Share Posted 2 hours ago Every speedway club last year lost money apart from Poole and Ipswich which is probably only down to extra play off meetings with large crowds. this season there is no tv money so every club is £70k down before a wheel has turned. Sheffield have lost their main sponsor so that’s possibly another £20k down. Also the cost of starting up of Northampton is possibly being shared by the promotion too so further funding diminishing. But the BSPL have a cunning plan. Simply cut the points limit and loose a few top riders while at the same time put up admission. now this has been done about 28 times previously failing miserably and losing more disillusion fans each time so it’s very likely to work in 2026. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted 1 hour ago Report Share Posted 1 hour ago 8 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said: Every speedway club last year lost money apart from Poole and Ipswich which is probably only down to extra play off meetings with large crowds. this season there is no tv money so every club is £70k down before a wheel has turned. Sheffield have lost their main sponsor so that’s possibly another £20k down. Also the cost of starting up of Northampton is possibly being shared by the promotion too so further funding diminishing. But the BSPL have a cunning plan. Simply cut the points limit and loose a few top riders while at the same time put up admission. now this has been done about 28 times previously failing miserably and losing more disillusion fans each time so it’s very likely to work in 2026. When you are regularly losing customers, raising prices for those who still shop with you, by inflation busting amounts annually, is truly a brilliant plan... Heaven forbid, ever try and find out why your, once hugely loyal customers, are no longer visiting you... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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