IainB Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, WookieboyDon said: The club have just made a statement where Damien Bates has called for the public to keep spreading the word about speedway after last Thursday's home fixture was 'run at a significant loss.' Not good. ... and that's without having to pay Jack Holder! 1 hour ago, InTheDeepStuff said: As a Promoter Damian Bates needs to actually promote the sport and not be asking fans to do it for him. Friends of fans will know what they go support etc but having such a stop start season with repetitive opposition it’s a hard one to sell, but that again comes down to incompetence of BSPL He's played that card before at Leicester... obviously it's our (the fans) fault. They've only run 6 meetings so far this year, in one of the best summers for years, so fans can spread the word all they want but there's literally nothing to go and see for the majority of the time... maybe the crowds have dropped off due to the new logo 🤔 16 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Every club in premiership seems to be failing to promote. And the crowd numbers everywhere are down massively. Something needs to be done Business as usual? Edited July 13 by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTheAce Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 8 minutes ago, IainB said: ... and that's without having to pay Jack Holder! He's played that card before at Leicester... obviously it's our (the fans) fault. They've only run 6 meetings so far this year, in one of the best summers for years, so fans can spread the word all they want but there's literally nothing to go and see for the majority of the time... maybe the crowds have dropped off due to the new logo 🤔 Business as usual? Failure as usual 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 8 minutes ago, PhilTheAce said: Every club in premiership seems to be failing to promote. And the crowd numbers everywhere are down massively. Something needs to be done "Needed to be done" Phil, and well over a decade ago... I was on the Aces website earlier and did I read it correctly that all kids 0 - 17 get charged £11 to sit in the Grandstand?.. And free for U12's but £9 for 12 - 17 year olds to stand on the back straight? If so, absolutely crackers, and no wonder crowds are not great... The very demographic that brings adults in with them are the absolute key market that needs to be targeted, and, instead a parent has to pay £11 for their kid to sit next to them!!! All kids still at primary school age, attending with an adult should be free, with parents encouraged to bring as many friends of their kids as they can bring.. Kids say 12 to 17, in for a fiver.. Hundreds of seats are empty each meeting in F and G so just fill them with kids in for nothing, and even do reduced prices for adults to bring them.. The empty seats take zero money, and don't pay to drink or eat.... Back to Sheffield, didnt they do a press release pre season saying how well all was going when they were trying to find a buyer?.. Anyhow, I am sure all those who have led the sport to its current situation, will be the perfect ones to sort it...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted July 13 Author Report Share Posted July 13 Not good news, Especially after the winter when Sheffield were looking for investment. I hope everything works out well in the end for you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 Does it seem crowds have dropped more this years than usual ? it always seemed to be death by a thousand cuts where everything (quality of product, price to get in, crowds etc) dropped slightly year on year but from what some on here are saying it seems maybe a 10-20% drop in crowds against 2025 ? It always used to be when a club was in trouble 2-3 semi wealthy businessmen were waiting in the wings to takeover they then generally lost 50-100k per season for 2-3 years chucked the towel in then rinse and repeat with someone new but the availability of benefactors ready to underwrite losses also seems to have nearly dried up to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 Just read the full press release.... They are "scratching their heads" as to why crowds are down.... Really? FFS!!!! They also are confused as to why so few have taken up the 10,000 tickets they are giving away, as only 300 have been requested... I would suggest they give every fan 5 each and see if they can get their kids and grandkids, and their mates kids and grandkids to go... Didn't Glasgow do something similar successfully? Whenever I did "giveaways" when opening new stores, the expected redemption, based on historical data, was as low as 11%, ie you give out 10,000 vouchers, therefore 1100 would be redeemed... The other thing of course is how you look after those who attend for the first time.. We always ensured an investment in colleague numbers to ensure the experience of our first time visitors was good, and we got their name, address and contact details... Just giving something away doesn't mean any loyalty will be forthcoming... You have to target that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 7 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Does it seem crowds have dropped more this years than usual ? it always seemed to be death by a thousand cuts where everything (quality of product, price to get in, crowds etc) dropped slightly year on year but from what some on here are saying it seems maybe a 10-20% drop in crowds against 2025 ? It always used to be when a club was in trouble 2-3 semi wealthy businessmen were waiting in the wings to takeover they then generally lost 50-100k per season for 2-3 years chucked the towel in then rinse and repeat with someone new but the availability of benefactors ready to underwrite losses also seems to have nearly dried up to. Only anecdotal evidence from my own eyes, (as attendance numbers are never publicised are they?)... But, I attend the odd PO Qualifier now and again, probably once a season, and you can see a tangible drop off each year I have been to the NSS, (over the past five in particular).. The Grandstand used to be over circa two thirds full, (1300 or so), and the back straight about 500 to 600.. Now the Grandstand is around, I would say 1000, with around 300 to maybe 400 on the back straight.. The back straight can be spread out so it can disguise a drop off somewhat, however the Grandstand, particularly from bend four to just before the tapes, really shouts out how many no longer attend... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin king Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 I think Damien needs to check his gate receipts, when there is a meeting been live stream. Looking at the crowd last Thursday which was live streamed on BSN the crowds were definitely down, from previous weeks when there was no live stream. To attend a meeting costs £26 plus £4 for a programme, compare that to the price of a live stream in comfort of your home represents a decent saving, and even better if you can shared the costs between two of you. There is a cost of living crisis and money is tight and people will be looking ways to cut costs. I don't know whether other clubs have the same problem, but for me it is blindingly obvious that live streaming effects the crowds. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 Speedway is far too expensive to attend. We need to get rid of the fancy riders and go back to cheap equipment and admission at £10 on Friday/Saturday/Sunday. What benefit does Jack Holder and the other riders who ride in Poland bring to Britain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnolan Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 At the risk of banging the drum again - maybe someone will hear it this time? - there needs to be regular fixtures on a fixed night for each track, whichever they see as best for their business. And regular means more, so that means amalgamating the leagues. And cut the cloth according to the cost, teamwise. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 (edited) Duplicate Edited July 13 by LagutaRacingFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 24 minutes ago, spin king said: I think Damien needs to check his gate receipts, when there is a meeting been live stream. Looking at the crowd last Thursday which was live streamed on BSN the crowds were definitely down, from previous weeks when there was no live stream. To attend a meeting costs £26 plus £4 for a programme, compare that to the price of a live stream in comfort of your home represents a decent saving, and even better if you can shared the costs between two of you. There is a cost of living crisis and money is tight and people will be looking ways to cut costs. I don't know whether other clubs have the same problem, but for me it is blindingly obvious that live streaming effects the crowds. The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 21 minutes ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 3 minutes ago, IainB said: If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? The Size and Prestige of The Competitions?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YeOldPitGate Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 8 minutes ago, IainB said: If you look at their 6 home fixtures so far this season, 2 of them have been against Belle Vue & 2 against Leicester! The first Aces match no Kurtz & Blodorn The second Aces match no Blodorn, Kildermand & Bewley The second Lions match no Dan Thompson Where's the incentive to attend? Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 19 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. Spot on... I think the largest fundamental mistake the majority of promoters have made is that many still, it appears, see the sport as, well that, a "proper" sport!! Even though they have pretty much removed that notion via their very own operating model.. Fans, on the other hand, (maybe even the majority of them?), see the sport as more "sports entertainment"... Which means, and has meant for a long time, that the "sport" is seen more as being in the entertainment business, rather than being seen as relevant, or indeed, has the required resonance and prestige, to be measured as purely "sport"... And, as "The Entertainment Pound" is under more pressure now than ever before, you need be innovative, exciting, great at marketing, and need to be "something different" to survive, never mind prosper.. None of these attributes definitely exist in money losing organisations that do the same old/same old each year.... But still expect things to change for the better by doing exactly the same old/same old, and "scratch their heads" when it never happens.. As I have said before, the Manchester GP's gives hope as 6500 were happy to lay out a lot of money to attend two Speedway meetings, with many of them Aces followers.. Which shows, promote something with some prestige, jeopardy, consequence and credibility (like in a "proper" sport), and you can still attract a very decent following.. "Pretend" it is a "proper" sport, and hope enough people will collude with you, and you are pretty much doomed to fail, especially in the 24/7 unforgiving scrutiny of the digital age.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 2 hours ago, mikebv said: Only anecdotal evidence from my own eyes, (as attendance numbers are never publicised are they?)... But, I attend the odd PO Qualifier now and again, probably once a season, and you can see a tangible drop off each year I have been to the NSS, (over the past five in particular).. The Grandstand used to be over circa two thirds full, (1300 or so), and the back straight about 500 to 600.. Now the Grandstand is around, I would say 1000, with around 300 to maybe 400 on the back straight.. The back straight can be spread out so it can disguise a drop off somewhat, however the Grandstand, particularly from bend four to just before the tapes, really shouts out how many no longer attend... Maybe more and more do what you do Mike and dont bother with the PO qualifiers? Seems more and more just come out for the play offs themselves and use BSN for the rest of the season, or those who still have an interest do. The close season shambles, a six team league and big gaps between meetings i would think have taken their toll too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargent10 Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 55 minutes ago, YeOldPitGate said: Agreed when I used to go Sky was just starting out so most had only 3-4 tv channels, no streaming platforms, no online gaming, no dating sites, no multi plex cinemas etc tugging on the disposable income. The quality of the teams was stronger than now all be it the general lack of promotion was on par but due to lack of alternatives promoters mostly got away with it. As I've said many a time its not just speedway that's been dying a slow death last 30 years, nightclubs are virtually gone when I think to the one's I went to late 90's early noughties they were heaving with thousands inside if you had of said to me then in 25 years 90% of these will be gone I would have laughed at you. It just seems the public have no interest in size in Speedway, Nightclubs and pubs these days unless the pub is well run but even then I get the impression most pubs run at a loss and like speedway are bailed out by other businesses. It's getting hard to paper over the cracks 2-3 riders missing every meeting due to either injuries or riding elsewhere, one meeting a month then 3-4 in a fortnight, lack of riders now wiling to ride in the UK making the doubling up situation worse. Teams closing meaning seeing the same teams on repeat so people pick and choose meetings and as others have said you have streaming given a lot of racing is gate and go why not sit in your armchair with a beer at home no agg of travelling out and looking for a parking spot and buying over priced burgers and flat pints. Have to say what a great post, precisely what is happening with the modern market, kids are different today, nightclubs have virtually disappeared because bars are open late, entertainment during the week is a non starter for most because of the massive influx of gyms and social media platforms dictating how they should look and behave meaning their money will ultimately be spent there unless it’s a big night out (premier league darts for example), weekly events don’t cut it anymore sadly and speedway will teeter out within a few years, which is sad but inevitable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 37 minutes ago, bellevueace said: Maybe more and more do what you do Mike and dont bother with the PO qualifiers? Seems more and more just come out for the play offs themselves and use BSN for the rest of the season, or those who still have an interest do. The close season shambles, a six team league and big gaps between meetings i would think have taken their toll too. I've noticed that the PO Semis now don't seem to bring too many more in either... Maybe down to being on Satellite TV?... Which, this year it obviously won't be so maybe more will attend...?. The lack of prestige, prize size for winning any of fhe comps, and lack of interest from non speedway media, must also obviously impact crowd sizes.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 3 hours ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... 3 hours ago, mikebv said: The press release said every league meeting has been ran at a "significant loss"... The two KO Cup ones were good crowds, (I presume down to Aces and Lions fans being there in decent numbers?).. Streaming must impact attendances negatively as you say, when it was shown on Satellite TV the same thing happened... Seems strange that most clubs stream and is no problem otherwise they would stop doing it not carry on with it. But it affects Sheffield's attendences a lot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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