Jeff. 2 Posted November 21, 2003 Mauger's outstanding talent was his ability to gate under pressure. That is what won him World Titles in years in which he really wasn't the best on the planet (72, 77, 79). Agreed on 77 & 79 but 1972 from memory was one of Ivans better years and that despite breaking both wrists part way through the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandman 0 Posted November 21, 2003 (edited) all i can say is Mauger would have won the Grand Prix this year had he been as close as Tony was. having said that, age and outdated equiptment would have made it a wee bit tougher for him.. i also reckon Ivan, in the Elite League racing against the current batch of racers, would have fared with an 8 or 8+ average....... Main reason being of course is he is in his sixties!!!!! . Is it just me???? Edited November 22, 2003 by sandman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BilaHora Posted October 30, 2004 All Please forgive me for coming [very] late to this thread but, in my opinion, as with others here, is that you cannot compare the achievements of these two fine riders. However, what I believe you can compare in the two is the way they have both taken speedway riding to a new level. Ivan Mauger was probably the first to bring total professionalism to the sport, attracting sponsors and such like, while now Tony Rickardsson hires executive boxes to accommodate his sponsors at certain grands prix. In this respect, in my opinion, the two men are comparable. Regards BilaHora Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted October 30, 2004 Who's to say that if you transported Crunp, Adams, Pedersen and Trick back to the Mauger era that they would not have all beat him out of sight? ow do we not know that Mauiger didn't have it easy as all his challangers while good, were not of the same standard as the guys TRick has had to beat? Or the other way around, Mauger may have won every GP series ever if he had been around now. You simply CANNOT compare era's, it's not possible, never will be either. At the end of the day Mauger has the most world titles, Trick second best (I'd love to see hm take a couple more, just so I have something to tell the grand kids!). One thing I do seem to remember, about 3 years ago, during a meeting in Aus, Phil Crump and Ivan Mauger had 3 match races, the first match race was the fasterest time of the night, then the othet guy won the the 2nd one in what become the fastest time of the night and then the guy who won the first one (I think it was Mauger, Crump, Mauger) won the 3rd in what was the fastest time of the night. Them 3 times remained the fastest 3 times of the night. Maybe I have got it wrong (I don't think so though) but if I have not, it does seem to suggest the guys of the "good ol' days" were better than the modern guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,429 Posted October 30, 2004 (edited) can't really go on match races as these are all for show, but if times are faster, then fair play. have had more than one good chat with Ivan and Vaclav Verner about the merits of laydown engines compared to the older Jap/2-valve etc, and both agree whole heartedly that the laydowns are just far too easy to ride. when you put that together with slick tracks you have both ingredients required to look good. opponents for both eras is a little harder to call ... Mauger (without the 'i') era ... he 'only' had to contend with the likes of Briggs, Olsen, Michanek, Peter Collins, Mike Lee (at his best), Fundin (although at the end of his great career), Harrfeldt, Ronnie Moore (once again leaning towards the end of his career), the Poles on their own tracks were unbelievable, and the list could go on ... Rickardsson era ... Jason Crump, Hamill, Hancock, maybe Loram, Gollob, Leigh Adams the list could go on here too ... sometimes i feel had GP's been around in Mauger's era he would have won more titles, and had one-off finals stayed, Rickardsson may not have won so many... swings and roundabouts really, but something everyone has to agree on is that both were/are (Ivan can still get round a track pretty sharpish) fantastic riders. Edited October 30, 2004 by stevehone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norbold 7,109 Posted October 31, 2004 Trick second best. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You mean second equal with Ove Fundin, who won his five titles against the likes of Briggs, Craven, Moore and Knutson. He also came second three times and third three times. That's a total of eleven rostrum places. For my money, he was better than both Mauger and Trick... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shoddy 1 Posted October 31, 2004 (edited) Fundin - 10 consecutive rostrum appearances (6 in top 2). 4 wins, 3 seconds, 3 thirds. Missed out on 11 due to suspension, before winning the year after! Mauger - 8 consecutive rostrum appearances (7 in top 2). 4 wins, 3 seconds, 1 third. Also won it on two other occasions of course. Rickardsson - 7 consecutive rostrum appearanes (and counting! only 2 in top 2). 4 wins, 1 second and 2 thirds. Has another win and a second place. Nielsen - 6 consecutive rostrum appearances (all in top 2). 3 wins, 3 seconds. Also added 4 more in a separate run (all in top 2 again) with 1 win and 3 seconds. Added two other 3rd places aswell. Crump - 4 conescutive rostrum appearance (and counting, all in top 2). 1 win, 3 seconds. Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Tomasz Gollob have all been on three consecutive rostrums - as far as I can tell that is the lot for 3+??? (...and for Norbold... Vic Huxley - 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 2nd in the first four Star Riders Championships. Wilbur Lamoreaux - 2nd and 3rd in 1937 & 38 and had qualified in 3rd place for the 1939 final which never took place. Jack Milne had also qualified for this final after finishing 1st and 2nd in the previous years. Eric Chitty - 1st, 1st, 1st during the war years. Bill Kitchen - 1st, 2nd, 2nd from 1945 to 1947.) Edited November 2, 2004 by Shoddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Custom House Kid 45 Posted October 31, 2004 Having seen both my preferd choice T Rickardsson! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BilaHora Posted October 31, 2004 Mr Shoddy Perhaps I am missing something but in your analysis of Tony Rickardsson you note that he only finished in the "...top two" twice but was champion four times. As I read your analysis, Tony Rickardsson finished in the "...top two" five times, winning four and being runner-up once. As I said, perhaps I am missing something. Regards BilaHora Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,429 Posted November 1, 2004 (edited) the argument could go on for ever as everyone will have their own theories ... all i go on is what i have seen and the stats. Ivan's individual record is pretty good ... in 70 world final races (not counting run-offs) he actually WON 45 of them ... that's not bad when up against the best. he only had 3 x 3rd places, 1 x 4th, 1 x fall, and 1 x EF ... that record speaks for itself ... out and out consistency add that to 3 world longtrack titles, and i'd say he was pretty good Edited November 1, 2004 by stevehone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy Munchie 0 Posted November 1, 2004 Tony Rickardsson every time. Won his first title under the one off format and then went on to win 4 more under a new format showing the ability to adapt. When the GP format changes again next year I'm confident Tony will again win the title and then go on to break Maugers record. Showing that he is capble of winning in what ever format put in front of him. Rickardsson is the best rider ever to have lived Having said that in years to come the debate will be between Rickardsson and Lindback to decide who is the best rider ever to have lived. I'm also sure that when that time comes the young Brazilian will take the crown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjw ministerofport 1 Posted November 1, 2004 There have been lucky World champions and there have been riders who should have been World champions and then there are the elite of World champions, three of these are Ivan, Tony and Ove they are the ones who have set an almost super human standard for others to follow. That makes us so lucky to have witnessed their achievments and for me it does not matter really whether Tony goes on to beat Ivans record. Having said that Ivan will always remain the best for me because he was my favorite. And for those who said he was a cheat at the start, he was doing what all the other riders of the time were doing only because he was Ivan he was doing it better. And as for passing how can you use that as a critism he was usually at the front. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian 24 Posted November 1, 2004 For my money Ove Fundin was the tops. Apart from being a fabulously consistent rider - his record speaks for itself - he was an awesome opponent when behind. In addition, the man had an aura - when Fundin came to the tapes you always had the feeling that something special was about to happen, and it often did. I was also lucky enough to see Moore, Briggs, Craven and Mauger at their best. I was entirely neutral, not having been a fan of any of the old National League sides. My neutral assessment was that Moore was the smoothest, Briggs the most all-action, Craven the most spectacular and Mauger the most professional. But Fundin was something else; difficult to define, but he was one-of-a-kind. I don't know how many fans were added to the gate when Ivan Mauger came visiting, but I'd bet it was a fraction of what Ove could pull in. One of my big regrets is that I never saw him perform the magic at Norfolk - it must have been something else! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iris123 20,980 Posted November 1, 2004 I would say that Ivan also had an "aura" about him.It was generally a matter of wondering if he would be beaten,no matter how strong the line up.Once in front (which was most of the time)he was rarely beaten.I don't even remember him holding too many track records,he just got out of the gate and cruised round,the other riders knew he wasn't going to make a mistake and his bikes rarely packed up.Got a video of a World Champ round where i think Dave Lanning is saying something like "look,he's not even putting his foot down,just cruising round the corners!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandman 0 Posted November 1, 2004 i guess only the ones who have seen both ride at their best can give a balanced opinion. close your eyes, it is thirty years ago, and both in their prime, racing against each other. then think a young ivan raised in todays speedway against tony at his best.. man that would be something to see..personally im on the fence on this one.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
