Is There A Need For Guest Riders?

[The Third Man 2,217]

As I've often commented when the British League Division Two was formed in 1968 teams often 'doubled up' with promotions competing in Division One. My team (Oxford) had promotional ties with both Eastbourne and Peterborough and would use riders from them when short handed.

 

Riders who progressed thru' Eastbourne to Oxford/White City included Gordon Kennett, Malcolm Ballard, Trevor Geer, Steve Weatherley, Paul Gachet, Eric Dugard etc and from Peterborough John Davis and Richard Greer. Not perfect but at least the riders were familiar with the Cowley faithful and it's what initially Division Two was all about...generating youngsters for the future.

 

But they didnt double up in the same was as today, there were no guests or rr if your rider was riding for their normal team. An out of form rider could only be replaced 6 times in a season if my memory if correct.

 

Sheffield used their own riders who they had loaned out to BL2 teams or riders they signed on a short term basis to cover injured riders.

 

they didn't us a different rider every week or use riders from the same league to cover injured reserves, and the riders used the experience to gain confidence to move up a league the next season on the whole

Edited May 21, 2017 by The Third Man

[steve roberts 9,246]

 

But they double up in the same was as today, there were no guests or rr if your rider was riding for their normal team. An out of form rider could only be replaced 6 times in a season if my memory if correct.

 

Sheffield used their own riders who they had loaned out to BL2 teams or riders they signed on a short term basis to cover injured riders.

 

they didn't us a different rider every week or use riders from the same league to cover injured reserves, and the riders used the experience to gain confidence to move up a league the next season on the whole

..unfortunately I can't make comparisons with today as I'm not familiar with today's regulations.

[Mr Snackette 190]

To paraphrase the much loved Jim Royle: "Guests....."a necessary evil". My ar$e!!!!

 

Clearly, other leagues operate quite successfully without employing guest riders, yet for the UK ending the guest system would bring down civilisation as we know it. After all, by having a guest system it has led to the success that is British speedway, and it's continuing growth as it goes from strength to strength!!!

 

Of course, this isn't anything new. Back in the day, when I used to go to over 100 meetings a season (and that's around £1,800 that UK Speedway no longer gets!), it was a thorny subject then. I remember going to both legs of a KO Cup Final....I think it was 1989 Cradley v Wolves, and Jimmy Nilsen rode for both teams over the two legs. I never found out if he got a winners or losers medal....or both!!!!!

 

It lacked credibility then, and it lacks credibility now. But why change, given the success that is UK Speedway?!!!!!!!!

[The Third Man 2,217]

To be honest I think they are a necessary evil, as I have stated they have been around for the 50 years I have going to speedway and I cant see another way of doing it.

 

But how can a guest ride for both teams in a cup final as quoted above, and this season you could have a guest riding for one of their teams and against their other team in a relegation play off, now I cant wait for that farce to happen

Edited May 21, 2017 by The Third Man

[Garry1603 353]

Maybe there should be a restriction in the number of guests a team can use in a season? If they were allowed {say} six for the season there would be at least a few opportunities to give youth a chance whilst fielding a strong team for the 'big' matches.

[tigerowl 630]

I think the main words to come out of this thread are integrity, credibility and circus.

 

At the moment the sport has none of the first two words and the third is an accurate description of where things are at the moment.

 

Just looking at yesterday's fixtures and the Ipswich team at Scunthorpe contained Danny King (also rides for Leicester), Rory Schlein (also rides for Wolves), Justin Sedgmen (also rides for Belle Vue), Kyle Newman (also rides for Poole), Cameron Heeps (also rides for Somerset), Nathan Greaves (also rides for Wolves) and Connor Mountain (also rides for Mildenhall). That's a compete team of riders who double up for other clubs.

 

My own 'team', Sheffield, weren't in action yesterday but Kyle Howarth was riding for Scunthorpe, Lasse Bjerre was riding for Peterborough, as was Robert Branford, whilst Branford and Josh Grajczonek spent the weekend on opposite sides riding for Rye House and Somerset.

 

The sport needs to attract newcomers and retain its long standing followers. There is no chance of doing either whilst the current position continues. Speedway is essentially a team sport and people need to feel that they belong to a team and the team belongs to them.

 

None of the other leagues in Europe seems to do this and the British promoters are always looking for the easy way out. They make team changes and put riders out of work, then cry that there are not enough riders to go round.

 

Riders need to ride for one team only. If that means that some of them have to go part time, then so be it. I'm not sure how they can earn enough to be full time, riding for just seven and a half months out of the year in front of 400 or so paying customers anyway. Going back a few years, most riders had jobs and only the top men were full time riders, but now, with the doubling up scenario, a five point Second Division man, riding for two or more clubs can be a full time rider.

 

This would help riders to ride at the correct level. Craig Cook, Danny King, Rory Schlein, Josh Grajczonek, Robert Lambert etc. should not be riding in the Premier League. Similarly, Matt Williamson (a seven point man with Workington this season), Danny Ayres, Mitchell Davey etc. should not be riding in the National League.

 

The not enough riders to go round argument does not hold water. The same was said in 1960 when the Provincial league was formed and in 1968 when the Second Division was introduced. Make team places available and the riders will be found - from the junior leagues, from grass track, out of retirement and from some of the emerging countries in Europe to fill the places.

[The White Knight 9,039]

I think the main words to come out of this thread are integrity, credibility and circus.

 

At the moment the sport has none of the first two words and the third is an accurate description of where things are at the moment.

 

Just looking at yesterday's fixtures and the Ipswich team at Scunthorpe contained Danny King (also rides for Leicester), Rory Schlein (also rides for Wolves), Justin Sedgmen (also rides for Belle Vue), Kyle Newman (also rides for Poole), Cameron Heeps (also rides for Somerset), Nathan Greaves (also rides for Wolves) and Connor Mountain (also rides for Mildenhall). That's a compete team of riders who double up for other clubs.

 

My own 'team', Sheffield, weren't in action yesterday but Kyle Howarth was riding for Scunthorpe, Lasse Bjerre was riding for Peterborough, as was Robert Branford, whilst Branford and Josh Grajczonek spent the weekend on opposite sides riding for Rye House and Somerset.

 

The sport needs to attract newcomers and retain its long standing followers. There is no chance of doing either whilst the current position continues. Speedway is essentially a team sport and people need to feel that they belong to a team and the team belongs to them.

 

None of the other leagues in Europe seems to do this and the British promoters are always looking for the easy way out. They make team changes and put riders out of work, then cry that there are not enough riders to go round.

 

Riders need to ride for one team only. If that means that some of them have to go part time, then so be it. I'm not sure how they can earn enough to be full time, riding for just seven and a half months out of the year in front of 400 or so paying customers anyway. Going back a few years, most riders had jobs and only the top men were full time riders, but now, with the doubling up scenario, a five point Second Division man, riding for two or more clubs can be a full time rider.

 

This would help riders to ride at the correct level. Craig Cook, Danny King, Rory Schlein, Josh Grajczonek, Robert Lambert etc. should not be riding in the Premier League. Similarly, Matt Williamson (a seven point man with Workington this season), Danny Ayres, Mitchell Davey etc. should not be riding in the National League.

 

The not enough riders to go round argument does not hold water. The same was said in 1960 when the Provincial league was formed and in 1968 when the Second Division was introduced. Make team places available and the riders will be found - from the junior leagues, from grass track, out of retirement and from some of the emerging countries in Europe to fill the places.

A very well thought out and argued Post tigerowl - I agree with every word.

 

The only reason for the highlighted piece is that it shows that I, and one or two others one here are not alone.

 

Thank you.

[Trees 2,814]

I thought Swedish riders can race for teams in their two leagues?

[tellboy 3,662]

I thought Swedish riders can race for teams in their two leagues?

They did,i assume they still do.

[Trees 2,814]

I don't read how much of a joke their leagues are though ....

[waiheke1 4,295]

I don't read how much of a joke their leagues are though ....

Perhaps because they have designated race nights to avoid "doubling up" being an issue?

[tigerowl 630]

It seems very limited in Sweden. Anyway, there's a thread devoted to the subject on SSF.

[orion 7,615]

There is no need for guest riders and missing riders should have to be replaced by up and coming NL riders. Nothing wrong with re-declarations though.

That would bring the crowds in ...Jason Doyle replaced by a junior ...why do people on these topics give zero thought to the money side of the sport ....it's the same old thing no one likes guests but for years and years no one come up with anything workable or better to replaced them .

[moxey63 1,785]

That would bring the crowds in ...Jason Doyle replaced by a junior ...why do people on these topics give zero thought to the money side of the sport ....it's the same old thing no one likes guests but for years and years no one come up with anything workable or better to replaced them .

 

 

Don't let the public know he's being replaced by a junior... until they've paid their dosh and have taken their seats.

[waiheke1 4,295]

That would bring the crowds in ...Jason Doyle replaced by a junior ...why do people on these topics give zero thought to the money side of the sport ....it's the same old thing no one likes guests but for years and years no one come up with anything workable or better to replaced them .

There is no viable alternative to cover missing number ones.Rr for other hl is fine (or guest if more than 1 misding). Fixed race nights (2 nights EL, rest for PL) would remove the guest for DU issue. Missing 2nd string/reserve should be covered by designated number 8 or local junior.

Don't see a viable way to eliminate guests, but they certainly could be minimised.

Remember back in the 80s of both sides were misding a number one they would agree to replace with a local junior. Today people would know in advance and attendances would be hit hard.