Speedway ... A Way Forward

[MattK 3,447]

What about Ipswich Sheffield and Redcar are Friday or Saturday nights feasible.

 

I don't think it is an insurmountable problem with some intelligent fixture planning.

 

There are 34 weeks from the start of March to the end of October.

 

Last season Sheffield rode 26 home meetings on a Thursday.

 

If the new Premiership moved to fixed race nights and the eight teams are equally distributed, the worse case scenario is a Thursday club (let's use Swindon as an example) needing to ride 24 fixtures on a Thursday (16 home and 8 away).

 

Of course, in reality Swindon won't ride all of their home meetings on a Thursday, as several will be held on Sundays (bank holiday weekends) and Mondays for TV.

 

Obviously, Thursday Championship clubs like Sheffield will have to compromise and move some of their home meetings to an alternate night, but just like some Premiership clubs will have to compromise on their race nights, we need to look at the bigger picture.

[foamfence 2,917]

 

I don't think it is an insurmountable problem with some intelligent fixture planning.

 

There are 34 weeks from the start of March to the end of October.

 

Last season Sheffield rode 26 home meetings on a Thursday.

 

If the new Premiership moved to fixed race nights and the eight teams are equally distributed, the worse case scenario is a Thursday club (let's use Swindon as an example) needing to ride 24 fixtures on a Thursday (16 home and 8 away).

 

Of course, in reality Swindon won't ride all of their home meetings on a Thursday, as several will be held on Sundays (bank holiday weekends) and Mondays for TV.

 

Obviously, Thursday Championship clubs like Sheffield will have to compromise and move some of their home meetings to an alternate night, but just like some Premiership clubs will have to compromise on their race nights, we need to look at the bigger picture.

I understood the idea was that Mondays and Thursdays were Premiership only.

[MattK 3,447]

I understood the idea was that Mondays and Thursdays were Premiership only.

 

I guess we will find out at the AGM. However, for me a bit of flexibility is required to allow club to migrate to the new fixed race nights. As I suggest, it does not seem impossible for some clubs across leagues to ride on the same night in the short term, while longer terms arrangements are put in place.

 

With proper fixture planning enforcing fixed race nights from day one seems unnecessary.

[foamfence 2,917]

 

I guess we will find out at the AGM. However, for me a bit of flexibility is required to allow club to migrate to the new fixed race nights. As I suggest, it does not seem impossible for some clubs across leagues to ride on the same night in the short term, while longer terms arrangements are put in place.

 

With proper fixture planning enforcing fixed race nights from day one seems unnecessary.

In the event of a rain-off and a Premiership fixture having to be re-arranged, we would be back to the situation of doubling-up clashes if a Championship club had decided to use that particular (and previously vacant) date but you're right in that we await clarity, or at least what passes for clarity in BSPA terms.

[SCB 0]

I'm loving the convoluted "simpler" average system

 

So he proposes rounding averages to the nearest 0.5 of a point. I give you Rider A averages 4.25 and rider B averages 4.74, which one are you going to sign on a 4.5 average? The one nearly 0.5 higher. So you do that 7 times and you have gained 3.5 points. Thats 3.5 points more for you, and 3.5 less for the opposition (every point you score in speedway is one less for the opposition) meaning a 7 point difference before the meeting has ever started and allowing for form.

 

And then the silly bugger suggests that the conversion between leagues should be 1.2 and 0.8. ARGH. Just make it 0.8 and multiple one way and dive the other. Jesus wept! The maths on that one is so wrong it's scary! To prove my points, take a number, add on 100% then remove 100% and how much do you have? It's NOT what you started with, it's nothing. averages/ratios/percentages are relative values.

 

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH AVERAGES!

 

FFS.

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCB

[MattK 3,447]

OK, I appreciate that this will come across as quite negative, but I thought I’d post it anyway!

 

The main problem I have with most of these "blue print" type posts I read on here and indeed published above, is that they do not lay out the problems they are trying to solve, before launching into a vast array of changes.

 

For example, averages are one of the few things speedway does well - when it doesn't fiddle with them. They are mathematically pure and are the best indication of a rider’s ability. This article doesn't describe the problems it is trying to solve, before proposing multiple complex and perplexing changes to how averages are calculated and used for teambuilding.

 

Rounding up to the nearest 0.5 is a terrible idea and will have the opposite effect to what the author is suggesting. For example, he states "a rider is deemed 'too good' to fit into a team because his average is 4.02, not 4.00

 

I don't see how rounding up an average to the nearest 0.5 helps. For example, a rider with an average of 3.76 will be rounded up to 4.0 which could potentially put him out of a ride.

 

The author also suggests that it would "remove instances of a single engine failure could be the difference" - when in fact it exacerbates the problem, as in my example above, a 3.76 rider who suffers one engine failure and sees his average drop to 3.74, would be rounded DOWN to 3.5 - a huge difference in terms of teambuilding for the sake of a single ride.

 

I don't like the idea of riders having a consistent average over the course of the season, as this penalises teams who sign improving riders and then have to "weaken" if they ever need to bring in a replacement. Again, I don't understand what problem this change is looking to solve.

 

I don't like the "single average". Just say no to multipliers kids. Look at the absolute s**tstorm which resulted this year. Why would we want to replicate this? Riders perform differently in different leagues, I don’t have a problem with that.

 

The August 31st cut off is an interesting idea, but is there really a problem with average manipulation at the end of the season?

 

I like the idea of assessing averages based on scores in foreign leagues. I'm sure that rings a bell somewhere. Although, however it is done needs to be transparent.

 

I am deeply ambivalent on the tactic ride.

 

The suggestion of one big league doesn't address any of the concerns that was usually raised when one big league is suggested, namely halving the number of meetings for most riders who currently double-up, the huge disparity in quality of the riders and how teams with smaller payrolls will be able to field a competitive side.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of one big league, it just feels right with only 18 teams. However, there are insurmountable issues in its implementation, which no one has yet managed to suggest workable solutions to.

 

[Grachan 7,362]

I'm loving the convoluted "simpler" average system

 

So he proposes rounding averages to the nearest 0.5 of a point. I give you Rider A averages 4.25 and rider B averages 4.74, which one are you going to sign on a 4.5 average? The one nearly 0.5 higher. So you do that 7 times and you have gained 3.5 points. Thats 3.5 points more for you, and 3.5 less for the opposition (every point you score in speedway is one less for the opposition) meaning a 7 point difference before the meeting has ever started and allowing for form.

 

And then the silly bugger suggests that the conversion between leagues should be 1.2 and 0.8. ARGH. Just make it 0.8 and multiple one way and dive the other. Jesus wept! The maths on that one is so wrong it's scary! To prove my points, take a number, add on 100% then remove 100% and how much do you have? It's NOT what you started with, it's nothing. averages/ratios/percentages are relative values.

 

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH AVERAGES!

 

FFS.

 

 

To put it another way. Take an 8 point rider in the second division.

 

8 x 1.2 = 9.60

 

Take a 9.60 rider in the first division.

 

9.6 x 0.8 = 7.68.

 

However, using his rounding up system, a 7.68 rider would then be rounded up to 8.00 and 9.60 average rider would be rounded up to 10, 10 x 0.8 = 8.00.

 

So maybe he is thinking it in those terms.

[SCB 0]

The main problem I have with most of these "blue print" type posts I read on here and indeed published above, is that they do not lay out the problems they are trying to solve, before launching into a vast array of changes.

BOOM! Got it in one.

 

First you need to list the 10 things speedway does right and the 10 things it does wrong (it might end up being 5 or 15 if thats what you come up with but aim for 10) then fix the wrong things without breaking the good stuff. This guy appears to have just thrown a load of ideas into a hat to fix a problem that doesn't exist and in doing so has made things worse!

 

95% of what needs changing isn't the rules. It's the implementation of the rules and the whole running of a show on race night.

 

 

To put it another way. Take an 8 point rider in the second division.

 

8 x 1.2 = 9.60

 

Take a 9.60 rider in the first division.

 

9.6 x 0.8 = 7.68.

 

However, using his rounding up system, a 7.68 rider would then be rounded up to 8.00 and 9.60 average rider would be rounded up to 10, 10 x 0.8 = 8.00.

 

So maybe he is thinking it in those terms.

Still mathematically wrong and certainly not "simpler" as claimed, it has an extra step in it, how does adding steps make it simpler?!

Edited November 16, 2017 by SCB

[WalterPlinge 657]

I'm loving the convoluted "simpler" average system

 

So he proposes rounding averages to the nearest 0.5 of a point. I give you Rider A averages 4.25 and rider B averages 4.74, which one are you going to sign on a 4.5 average? The one nearly 0.5 higher. So you do that 7 times and you have gained 3.5 points. Thats 3.5 points more for you, and 3.5 less for the opposition (every point you score in speedway is one less for the opposition) meaning a 7 point difference before the meeting has ever started and allowing for form.

 

And then the silly bugger suggests that the conversion between leagues should be 1.2 and 0.8. ARGH. Just make it 0.8 and multiple one way and dive the other. Jesus wept! The maths on that one is so wrong it's scary! To prove my points, take a number, add on 100% then remove 100% and how much do you have? It's NOT what you started with, it's nothing. averages/ratios/percentages are relative values.

 

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH AVERAGES!

 

FFS.

Spot on.

 

People suggesting grading systems are idiots. What possible benefit do they think they gain from 0.5 point grades?

SCB has perfectly explained how stupid this is with his example of the 4.25 rider and the 4.74 rider.... which do you sign on a 4.50 grade? obviously the 4.74.

And why would you unfairly treat them both as 4.50 when we already have a sensible system which treats them as 4.25 and 4.74 thereby taking into account the difference in their ability?

 

And if the conversion between leagues is 0.8 one way, then it is 1.25 the other way. (not 1.20). This isn't even opinion. It's mathematical fact. Anyone with a primary school education knows what a reciprocal is surely?

[Vincent Blachshadow 2,937]

Fixed race nights are what all the other countries have had for years and at least two are successful so .........

 

But when any team wanted to enter those leagues they knew when they would be racing - if you can't use the stadium on Sunday/Tuesday then sorry, you can't join. That was never the case here and imposing that now may not work and could even be detrimental to the sport in GB.

[waytogo28 2,054]

We don't have long to wait to hear of The Way Forward and I wonder what we will think of the BSPA's latest plan after we have had a season of it? Crystal Ball. Must be the Last Chance Saloon?

[cityrebel 2,960]

How many last chance saloons does british speedway want!

[Grachan 7,362]

Here's an example of why this guy's average theory doesn't work.

 

A second division rider has an average of 4.51. This times 1.2 comes to 5.412.

 

Rounded up, 4.51 comes to 5. And 5.412 rounded down also comes to 5.

 

So he has an identical average in both leagues.

Edited November 16, 2017 by grachan

[SharpenRake 1,505]

Here's an example of why this guy's average theory doesn't work.

 

A second division rider has an average of 4.51. This times 1.2 comes to 5.412.

 

Rounded up, 4.51 comes to 5. And 5.412 rounded down also comes to 5.

 

So he has an identical average in both leagues.

I could be wrong but think a 4.51 premier average would be rounded to 4.5 and the 5.421 would be 5.5

[Grachan 7,362]

I could be wrong but think a 4.51 premier average would be rounded to 4.5 and the 5.421 would be 5.5

 

Good point.