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SCB

OAP concessions, why?

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7 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

According to the Office for National Statistics, that's not true.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/financialyearending2017

They say that the median retired household's income is £22,400, that of a non retired household is £29,300 (the equivalent mean is £26,347 and £34,363). That's about 30% lower.

Having said that, the gap in the last 10 years has narrowed significantly. While non retired household incomes have remained the same, retired households have increased by almost 25% .

To me, that means you have a point and don't deserve the abuse thrown in your direction simply for raising this issue. 

Until, however, those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them. 

 

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The simplest answer to the OP is that OAPs get a discount today, just because they always did in the past.
Going back to a time when very few OAPs attending Speedway would have a private pension and would (then) have been on the poor side.
That is/was the British tradition.

The argument for taking the concession away is a fairly silly one.
The negative impact of removing that 'discount' today would piss off so many that the promoters would be stupid to do so as the attandances would be hit badly.

But then I would have thought SCB was very able to work that out for himself.

So, I assume he just felt like prodding the hornet's nest due to boredom!

Edited by Grand Central
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41 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument.

The above was Halifaxtiger quoting SCB.

SCB, it does say "average", that means the figure evens everyone out.

Someone on the National Minimum Rate of £7.50ph will earn £15,600pa. Even the new pension, only recently started to be paid, is approx £8,400pa and that depends on NI contributions. Pensioners before that get much less- and thats what my state pension is....much less. I contributed to a private pension for 23 years which helps me out, many pensioners today do not have private pensions. They will really be struggling.

I think you need to learn what pensioners are actually on rather then rely on some "average"  figure.

If pensioners didnt get "senior citizen" rates I would imagine some businesses would struggle - speedway would probably have folded years ago. 

 

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1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

those two figures match each other then I think the case for the discount is justified, quite aside from the fact that certainly some of my retired friends would stop going if speedway did away with that reduction and that's regardless of the income they receive. There are a lot of retired people that go to speedway - although the proportion is nothing like what you have made it out to be - and the sport simply can't afford to risk losing them. 

When housing costs are taken into account:

Pensioner incomes 'outstrip those of working families'

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27 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

If pensioners didnt get "senior citizen" rates I would imagine some businesses would struggle - speedway would probably have folded years ago. 

In which case, why not offer the "discount" to all customers?

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9 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

(quote from above post)If you can't see that old people will die before young people,well .....You're an idiot.)

 

What an idiotic comment.I am 60 now and in my lifetime I have lost 8 friends and family ranging between 14 and 56 the reaper comes when he is ready so do not count your chickens no one ever knows how long they have got.

Edited by B.V 72
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1 hour ago, B.V 72 said:

(quote from above post)If you can't see that old people will die before young people,well .....You're an idiot.)

 

What an idiotic comment.I am 60 now and in my lifetime I have lost 8 friends and family ranging between 14 and 56 the reaper comes when he is ready so do not count your chickens no one ever knows how long they have got.

...I have just lost a working colleague thru' cancer and he was in his early/middle thirties.

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SCB, even taking your view, don't forget that many pensioners paid into the system and paid the full admission price at speedway throughout their working lives and subsidised whatever benefits you think they now receive for those who were pensioners when they were younger. You can argue about statistics as to which group  was relatively better off 10,15 or 20 years ago but the fact is that few, if any of those who are now pensioners begrudged the older generation a few "perks" when they were working. We thought they had worked hard all their lives and deserved a few benefits in their later years.

However, put all that aside. The fact is that many commercial organisations offer discounts to many different sections of the community because they see it as sound commercial sense to do so. Teachers, civil servants, members of certain organisations. people who buy certain brands of products, are all offered discounts ranging from buying insurance, to holidays, to purchasing many different types of goods and for entertainment and leisure activities. There's nothing altruistic in offering pensioners these same discounts. It is done for exactly the same reasons as for any other group, because businesses think it commercially advantageous for them to do it. 

Much as it may grieve you I suspect that as a group we will be offered even more discounts because we shall be even more attractive to businesses as there will be more of us because we are living longer.

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I agree with SCB on some points but to turn his argument on it's head why should children get in free or at a reduced rate. Presumably their parents chose to have them with all associated costs so why should working childless people subsidise them. 

Dont say they are the future because without the present OAPs on their reduced admission there will be no future :P

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18 hours ago, SCB said:

It's funny, I get called ageist and selfish for asking a simple question that not one person has been able to justify. I point out that on average OAPs have more money that working people, I can justify my argument. I don't call people names, I don't get personal yet amazingly a number of non-ageist and selfless OAPs on this thread have done so, fantastic.

Seriously, can anyone actually answer the question, why do OAPs get a discount? Because they don't need it, they on average earn more than people who work.

Just because we can all name one poor OAP and one rich young person doesn't mean thats how it works, thats the beauty of averages.

 

You all want your OAP discount because many OAPs are poor but where the young or working person discount if they're very poor? This discount is given out simply because people are old, thats IS ageist. If ti was a poor person discount and people had to prove their income/wealth then fine. If it was a loyalty discount and people had to prove they had been going to speedway a long time then fine. But this is just a discount for being old, THAT is the very definition of ageist. The fact that nobody has been able to justify it but has in stead chosen to attack me only further makes me think that I am right.

And yes, I will keep bringing up the injustice that old people get loads of free/subsidised stuff while the young are left to pay for it while the young continue to be screwed over. I don't see how it's selfish that I care about the 18-25 year old of this country, because I don't fit into that age range and haven't for a while now, thats the very definition of selfless, the opposite of selfish.

 

As for RobMcCaffery, posting outright lies again. I have NEVER watched a Newport vs Sittingbourne meeting. Nice one. So excuse me if I treat the rest of your post with disdain as you have made that up, why should I care about the rest of the post. If you can't see that old people will die before young people, well..... You're an idiot.

 

As for the claim of "generalisation" well yes, thats the point of averages but how many people have "generalised" that OAP are poor? Which is odd because you see very few studies suggesting this.

 

 

So I ask again, why do OAPs get a discount on speedway (and trains, cinemas, football match etc) when they earn more than some people who are working? It makes no sense. if OAPs earned less I'd agree with it, but they do not in the main.

Yes I have been laughing about it for months!!!

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Many organisations offered discounts to OAPs to use the facilities or spend their money during quiet times, ie the pub etc for meals before 7pm on weekdays, or clubs during the daytime.  This then spread to other organisations who thought that by offering a discount they would get more people into their venue who would then spend more money.  Many who are retired do have to watch what they spend and any help from organisations with discounts is probably greatly appreciated by them, but it is difficult to means test them for those that are hard up and those who have an adequate income and those that receive well above the average income.    

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On 12/01/2018 at 5:30 PM, OveFundinFan said:

I wish I was on that £20k a year pension - fact is I am far below it.

If that £20k is some sort of average, it could include those directors who were earning £300k+ and receive pensions of £80k-£100k. Nice if you can get it.

That made me laugh as well. It's like when they quote the average wage, I always think, I wish!! I've worked a long time, and still have years to go, and at the end of it will have a work pension and state pension of some description (was contracted out for part) but both together fall well short of 20k. Certainly not as much as when working so I'll be happy for my concession without having to be means tested at the turnstile to get it.

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12 hours ago, MattK said:

When housing costs are taken into account:

Pensioner incomes 'outstrip those of working families'

Or when you take into accout that it's a think tank:

On 27/12/2017 at 10:49 AM, Humphrey Appleby said:

Think tanks need to self-promote in order to keep getting funding, but half the time they've no idea what's actually happening. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

Or when you take into accout that it's a think tanks actually thought !! :

 

If think tanks actually thought  they would not come out with the rubbish that they do. 

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