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9 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It's not been dangerous in 70 years of speedway prior.

Many a time a team has needed a 3-3 to win a meeting, or a championship..

Many a time. True. But it the great majority of those instances a race win  would have sufficed.

Only under this (and other infrequent pairs contests) is it that a 3-3 will do but ONLY if the opposition has a guy made to come last. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Many a time. True. But it the great majority of those instances a race win  would have sufficed.

Only under this (and other infrequent pairs contests) is it that a 3-3 will do but ONLY if the opposition has a guy made to come last. 

Ok..  a team needed a 5-1. Need both opponents to come behind your partner then. 

The point is, it's not suddenly dangerous.

Edited by BWitcher

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Ok..  a team needed a 5-1. Need both opponents to come behind your partner then. 

Again true.

But going for a 5-1 still encourages the pair to ride for the win. Nothing else. 

That just not whats needed here.

The key to this 3-3 scenario is totally different. It encourages the exact opposite tactics .

Tai off gate two in the final can 'sacrifice' his race by clamping the guy on the the inside to the kerb, almost to the a standstill. He doesnt care if his partner or the other opposition guy streak off into the sunset. And the positions of those two guys are irrelevant ... Tai just keeps the hapless guy behind him. Half a lap behind.

And England (sorry GB) are world champs !

Actually , now I've written it ... Let's hope that is just what happens !

Edited by Grand Central
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1 minute ago, Grand Central said:

Again true.

But going for a 5-1 still encourages the pair to ride for the win. Nothing else. 

That just not needed here.

The key to this 3-3 scenario is totally different. It encourages the exact opposite tactics .

Tai off gate two in the final can 'sacrifice' his race by clamping the guy on the the inside to the kerb, almost to the a standstill. He doesnt care if his partner or the other opposition guy streak off into the sunset. And the positions of those two guys are irrelevant ... Tai just keeps the hapless guy behind him. Half a lap behind.

Actually , now I've written it ... Let's hope that is just what happens !

Exactly.

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2 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Again true.

But going for a 5-1 still encourages the pair to ride for the win. Nothing else. 

That just not needed here.

The key to this 3-3 scenario is totally different. It encourages the exact opposite tactics .

Tai off gate two in the final can 'sacrifice' his race by clamping the guy on the the inside to the kerb, almost to the a standstill. He doesnt care if his partner or the other opposition guy streak off into the sunset. And the positions of those two guys are irrelevant ... Tai just keeps the hapless guy behind him. Half a lap behind.

Actually , now I've written it ... Let's hope that is just what happens !

Correct. And very entertaining it would be too. I'm not sure what your problem is really.

Many riders in the past have tried to slow a race to get their partner through. It's a tactic. What's the problem?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Correct. And very entertaining it would be too. I'm not sure what your problem is really.

Many riders in the past have tried to slow a race to get their partner through. It's a tactic. What's the problem?

I actually didn't say I had a problem in this discussion. This is the rule created for this meeting. OK it is not my preference. But who cares about that now. We need to work WITH it to win.

I was highlighting the totally different tactics needed from 'usual' deciding races.

As Mr Millik proved on Tuesday, when the riders is not too bright ... It loses the race for his team.

Edited by Grand Central
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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Correct. And very entertaining it would be too. I'm not sure what your problem is really.

Many riders in the past have tried to slow a race to get their partner through. It's a tactic. What's the problem?

Others were saying that the ref might exclude a rider for doing that.And that leads to a problem,because in theory you could get excluded for doing exactly what the competition is trying to encourage!!!

And the same could happen in the final if one rider is excluded and then a pair coast round knowing they only need to finish to win and then 1 or both get excluded for not trying.These are the silly parts of the sport.I know from seeing a rider get excluded for not trying at an indoor meeting on a dangerous concrete surface.Come to think of it,that was also a 2day event at Kiel and by the second day a number of riders were out injured(think Tobi Kroner broke a leg)and the guy who got excluded was the only rider left in this particular heat!!!!

Edited by iris123

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Again true.

But going for a 5-1 still encourages the pair to ride for the win. Nothing else. 

That just not whats needed here.

The key to this 3-3 scenario is totally different. It encourages the exact opposite tactics .

Tai off gate two in the final can 'sacrifice' his race by clamping the guy on the the inside to the kerb, almost to the a standstill. He doesnt care if his partner or the other opposition guy streak off into the sunset. And the positions of those two guys are irrelevant ... Tai just keeps the hapless guy behind him. Half a lap behind.

And England (sorry GB) are world champs !

Actually , now I've written it ... Let's hope that is just what happens !

Again.. that has been done many, many times in the past, it is nothing new. Many a time a pairing has let a rider go and concentrated on picking up the minor placings.

Edited, as just read your further reply. :)

 

Edited by BWitcher

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Again.. that has been done many, many times in the past, it is nothing new. Many a time a pairing has let a rider go and concentrated on picking up the minor placings.

Edited, as just read your further reply. :)

 

Cheers.

Often, there is a policy of 'seeing what happens on the first bend', or as you say letting one opponent go and concentrate on the minor places.

In the earlier parts of the meeting when total points are still important getting to the front and trying to dictate the race by slowing it down from there to let your partner through can come into play

Here, in the final though, right from the start you should be trying to optimise your chances of getting one opponent to be last as the main tactic. Choosing gate positions with that single objective and setting out with that plan. After the first bend/lap you may never get a better chance. Sacrificing your top guy to do it is a gamble but a sensible one i would say.

The fact that they are trying to do it to you, while you are doing it to them ... Will be interesting. 

And as Iris says ... The ref may not view it kindly.

As I said on Tuesday if you are clear of warnings by that stage a bit of movement at the start to put your oppo into the tapes wouldn't go amiss either, as an option.

Edited by Grand Central

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Posted (edited)

As BWitcher stated, this hasn't caused any problems before, and I agree that it is unlikely to cause any now.  Speedway is a dangerous sport, and the one reservation I have is that the current setup with tracks and equipment MAY make things a little more troublesome than heavy cinders and two-valve uprights.

However, riders aren't generally known for keeping their traps shut, and I can't say I have heard any serious complaints from them!  Remember when they made the switch to the six-in -a-race World Pairs?  Condemnation from the riders was immediate and widespread on the grounds of safety, so if they don't see this as an issue (and they are the ones risking life and limb) I see no reason for us to be concerned.  Like others, I just hope the meetings aren't spoiled by refereeing decisions...

No, I don't like the knockout heats.  My belief has always been that whoever gets most points should win - same with league playoffs.  The event name is nonsensical, but then again, the world is full of people trying to be "cool" these days.  I don't get the under-21 reserve rule, and not just because they introduce a policy that all teams cannot abide by!  With two-man teams, many of the countries are pretty well matched, so I don't agree that an open "pairs" event can be decided by the best under-21 rider who is not even one of the PAIR...

Having said all that, I like the fact that some of the lesser nations HAVE made an impact, which is something they may not have done with a 4-man team, and I am really looking forward to the next two days!

Steve

Edited by chunky

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Doesn’t look like polish fans have fell for the SON either, maybe better crowd tomorrow but this is the lowest crowd for Wroclaw since it’s been rebuilt 

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7 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Doesn’t look like polish fans have fell for the SON either, maybe better crowd tomorrow but this is the lowest crowd for Wroclaw since it’s been rebuilt 

Poland playing Chile tonight. Bad date chosen by BSI.

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7 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

YOU made your mind up from day one. Fair enough, that is your prerogative. But what some people on here forget or do not realise is that others, and especially in countries like Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Germany, etc, have a totally different view. And it is a 'world' championship event not a solely British one and the views of others should and will be taken into account.

Who said anything about the SON being a 'British event'? What a bizarre comment.

And there are people from other countries on here who expressed that it's an ill-conceived event, not to mention pointed out the flaws in the competition rules. I agree that some on here can be quite reactionary and unwilling to try new formats, but as you yourself now acknowledge, even the title of the competition is total unmarketable nonsense.

And to claim that one of the better competitions in world speedway had to be torn-up because the Poles had won it a couple of times in recent years (ignoring the total domination of the Danes in the 1980s), is an absurd justification, just as it was to claim this was 'something new, never seen before'. Almost as absurd as claiming that Teterow is the only available circuit to host a Semi-Final - if tracks can't be found to host something like this, that suggests there's something wrong with the demands being made of them.

Why on earth do you shill for these things, only to do a complete about turn later on? 

 

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