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tmc

British speedway: it's not all bad, you know!

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4 hours ago, tmc said:

If you think West Ham are worth watching at £50 a pop, think again!

In a supposed 90-minute game of pro football, the ball is only actually in play for about half that time. The rest is taken up with time-wasting, goal-kicks, throw-ins, free-kicks, berating the officials, etc.

It really does destroy any semblance of an argument when you try and take a pop at football when discussing speedway's ills.

If you think West Ham are worth watching, think again! you say..

With a POOR side they averaged 56,885 this season!!!

 

 

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2 hours ago, iris123 said:

Not only that,but at a lot of the big clubs there are waiting lists taking years sometimes to get a season ticket.I know a pal of mine from London got a Celtic season ticket in the knowledge he would only use it a few times a season.But it was his best chance and he could leave it with friends in Scotland who could use it when he didn't.At one club,and it might be Hamburg,can't remember,they have come out and said that if season tickets aren't used regularly they will become void,so that the next person in the long waiting list can get a chance to have one.Clubs in the situation can and probably will take the 'p',but demand is there .....the same with shirts,changing them regularly,but if people didn't buy them in large enough qualtities then the price would drop........ 

Spot on.

I gave up my season ticket at Wolves when I moved to Portugal. I wish I hadn't now. I was considering buying one for next season even though would only be able to attend a few games (would lend it out to family for others).. but chances are next to none with the demand. Not until they expand the stadium up towards 50,000 anyway.

As for the kit.. the anticipation for the new kit at Wolves is at a fever pitch. It's now been announced it will be made by Adidas which has increased the level of excitement even more. It's going to sell in bucket loads when released.

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5 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It really does destroy any semblance of an argument when you try and take a pop at football when discussing speedway's ills.

If you think West Ham are worth watching, think again! you say..

With a POOR side they averaged 56,885 this season!!!

 

 

Figures often don't tell the full story, especially in this case. Thousands of Hammers fans have taken to social media all season to vent their disgust at how shabbily they are being treated by the owners, with many threatening not to renew their season tickets, claiming they have been "lied to". The owners are vilified and subjected to daily online abuse and, as of this week, a petition is running to have MD Karren Brady stripped of her newspaper column.

The atmosphere at the Athletics Stadium has been toxic for much of this depressing season.

The fact that there are new 'plastic' (and probably more gullible) fans/tourists ready to replace traditionalists like myself, and many thousands of others who are cheesed off about how money has morally corrupted the game, does NOT mean our club, or the game itself, is being run very well (which was my original point).

It just means that there are many thousands more football fans with a sheep mentality, who are prepared to tolerate being mugged off, compared to speedway followers.

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23 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It really does destroy any semblance of an argument when you try and take a pop at football when discussing speedway's ills.

If you think West Ham are worth watching, think again! you say..

With a POOR side they averaged 56,885 this season!!!

 

 

According to a Guardian report on football finances, in the year up to May 2016 they  lost £5m and the overall losses for the Premier League were £113m.  Championship clubs losses were over £200m for the same season, with Bolton an eye watering £193m in debt.

If speedway is propped up by wealthy owners as income cannot meet expenditure football is no different with Roman Abramovich reportedly having put over £1bn into Chelsea.

 

Edited by Halifaxtiger
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2 hours ago, orion said:

The fans think  so as they go ..at speedway they don't

Because football is indoctrinated in the mindset as our national game hence the coverage it receives within the media.

Personally I gave up watching football years ago with the amount of money now talked about in transfer fees and salaries.

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22 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It really does destroy any semblance of an argument when you try and take a pop at football when discussing speedway's ills.

If you think West Ham are worth watching, think again! you say..

With a POOR side they averaged 56,885 this season!!!

 

 

Without wishing to get into the pointless discussion of what constitutes entertainment ( and let's not get into the silly argument Speedwáy only being 15 min racing) surely the point is that if 50,000+ are regularly paying an arm and a leg to watch a football match, it demonstrates that Speedwáy is not over priced , and that if people find someting enjoyable and entertaining they will find the funds to pay for it. 

Reducing Speedwáy admission to £10 won't bring more through the gate ( well not significantly anyway ) , good entertainment well presented will make a difference. There will never be football sized crowds at Speedwáy meetings but if Speedwáy tracks could put even another 200 on the gate each meeting of the season it would make a huge difference to the finances of most clubs, and to the future of the sport. Instead those in charge act as if lowering the standard is the way forward.

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1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

It really does destroy any semblance of an argument when you try and take a pop at football when discussing speedway's ills.

If you think West Ham are worth watching, think again! you say..

With a POOR side they averaged 56,885 this season!!!

 

 

In a stadium which holds 57,000. I make that 99.8% full.

This suggests that in fact their ticket are too cheap and they could easily charge more and still sell out.

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1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Anyone who has been to Isle of Wight speedway knows how good it can be.

I am reliably informed their gates are up again this season. 

I've been to three meetings on the island this year, and the crowds haven't been brilliant. They never are before the holiday season starts.

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7 hours ago, tmc said:

 

In a supposed 90-minute game of pro football, the ball is only actually in play for about half that time. The rest is taken up with time-wasting, goal-kicks, throw-ins, free-kicks, berating the officials, etc.

It has been mentioned a few times on this forum about atmosphere making a huge contribution to the experience of live sport.
Recently I paid my first visit in living memory to a premier league football match, Huddersfield v Swansea to be precise.
The atmosphere and noise was incredible, but as Tony Mac alludes to, most of the time nothing really exciting is actually happening.
A huge cheer followed by fervent clapping as a player clears a ball away from danger – you would think the guy had just found a cure for some terrible disease.
If you saw that same action with the crowd removed, there would be literally nothing exciting about it at all!
In my opinion this partly explains the, ‘speedway was much better in my day’ viewpoint.
The atmosphere back in the 60’s and 70’s clearly was superb and added hugely to the experience even if the racing was poor.
A good example is the 1981 world final at Wembley.
A fantastic occasion, for sure, but count the overtakes. 
Not many, and yet this is one of speedways best remembered meetings because the occasion and crowd elevated it to something way beyond just the racing.

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3 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Without wishing to get into the pointless discussion of what constitutes entertainment ( and let's not get into the silly argument Speedwáy only being 15 min racing) surely the point is that if 50,000+ are regularly paying an arm and a leg to watch a football match, it demonstrates that Speedwáy is not over priced , and that if people find someting enjoyable and entertaining they will find the funds to pay for it. 

Reducing Speedwáy admission to £10 won't bring more through the gate ( well not significantly anyway ) , good entertainment well presented will make a difference. There will never be football sized crowds at Speedwáy meetings but if Speedwáy tracks could put even another 200 on the gate each meeting of the season it would make a huge difference to the finances of most clubs, and to the future of the sport. Instead those in charge act as if lowering the standard is the way forward.

Totally agree.

Year after year they have 'cut costs'. 

Year after year more fans have walked away.

They never, ever, ever learn. The meeting from Belle Vue last night once again did nothing but damage to the sport. I doubt if anyone bar speedway fans even saw Heat 9.. folk flick on, see tonnes of empty seats and think, this isn't worth my attention. Had they seen a full stadium with vibrant atmosphere they might stick around a bit longer.. then get hooked on the superb on track action.

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3 hours ago, tmc said:

Figures often don't tell the full story, especially in this case. Thousands of Hammers fans have taken to social media all season to vent their disgust at how shabbily they are being treated by the owners, with many threatening not to renew their season tickets, claiming they have been "lied to". The owners are vilified and subjected to daily online abuse and, as of this week, a petition is running to have MD Karren Brady stripped of her newspaper column.

The atmosphere at the Athletics Stadium has been toxic for much of this depressing season.

The fact that there are new 'plastic' (and probably more gullible) fans/tourists ready to replace traditionalists like myself, and many thousands of others who are cheesed off about how money has morally corrupted the game, does NOT mean our club, or the game itself, is being run very well (which was my original point).

It just means that there are many thousands more football fans with a sheep mentality, who are prepared to tolerate being mugged off, compared to speedway followers.

In other words, you've had a bad season.

Happens with every football club. When things go bad the owners are the devil etc.

Then fans trot out the lines of 'plastic' as if nobody else is allowed to attend if they weren't at Roker Park on a cold Tuesday night in January in 1974 . 

Your argument was value for money. Yet now you are telling me that folk who aren't even West Ham fans are quite happy to turn up and fork out for this product that is not 'Value for Money'. 

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4 hours ago, MattK said:

In a stadium which holds 57,000. I make that 99.8% full.

This suggests that in fact their ticket are too cheap and they could easily charge more and still sell out.

Of course, football clubs count season ticket sales even when the ST holders become so p***** off that they stop going, leaving empty seats.

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2 hours ago, keepturningleft said:

It has been mentioned a few times on this forum about atmosphere making a huge contribution to the experience of live sport.
Recently I paid my first visit in living memory to a premier league football match, Huddersfield v Swansea to be precise.
The atmosphere and noise was incredible, but as Tony Mac alludes to, most of the time nothing really exciting is actually happening.
A huge cheer followed by fervent clapping as a player clears a ball away from danger – you would think the guy had just found a cure for some terrible disease.
If you saw that same action with the crowd removed, there would be literally nothing exciting about it at all!
In my opinion this partly explains the, ‘speedway was much better in my day’ viewpoint.
The atmosphere back in the 60’s and 70’s clearly was superb and added hugely to the experience even if the racing was poor.
A good example is the 1981 world final at Wembley.
A fantastic occasion, for sure, but count the overtakes. 
Not many, and yet this is one of speedways best remembered meetings because the occasion and crowd elevated it to something way beyond just the racing.

I knew some sense would break out amid the madness.

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2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

In other words, you've had a bad season.

Happens with every football club. When things go bad the owners are the devil etc.

Then fans trot out the lines of 'plastic' as if nobody else is allowed to attend if they weren't at Roker Park on a cold Tuesday night in January in 1974 . 

Your argument was value for money. Yet now you are telling me that folk who aren't even West Ham fans are quite happy to turn up and fork out for this product that is not 'Value for Money'. 

Yes, they're officially mad, mate. Nutters the lot of 'em.

Although, you are probably right. Sullivan, Gold and Brady, those luvvable Eastenders ("cor blimey, don't we luv 'em") really are genuine nice guys and us mugs who have supported the team for 50 years have got them all wrong. They are charging the club silly amount of interest in personal loans, without investing any of their own money in the playing squad, and trading off the fans' blind loyalty for the sake of the TV money gravy train.

In fact, as Brady eluded to in her Scum column, it's the fans' fault that West Ham have had such a poor season.
 

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On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 12:41 AM, RobMcCaffery said:

It's sad (that was edited!) that a serious attempt to make a point about the relative state of speedway in response gets petty point-scoring drivel from the usual suspects. 

Tony mentioned that he couldn't comment on ice hockey. I don't have involvement with that sport these days but their league structure until recently has been similar to ours, with a small top division supported by a middle section of around a dozen clubs but then, unlike us, regionalised hockey in the third and fourth tiers. I noticed when taking a look at the structure during the winter that their second tier appeared to have self-destructed with the former members now picking up the pieces in the regionalised minor leagues. 

Yes, we're not the only sport with problems but we are the only one where it ios pressures from overseas that are damaging the sport domestically. I've said before the BSPA has its great limitations but I rather feel sorry for them trying to face up to the onslaught of Poland, BSI and One Sport and having to surrender weekends for the top tier in response. They weren't really equipped for the battle. 

Football is a sport apart, if only for the money. You only have to look at the success of Manchester City and Chelsea, backed up by virtually unlimited subsidy from private individuals and their businesses to see that the sport side is rapidly disappearing. Sadly football has been relentlessly hyped so far in the 25 years since it sold its soul to Murdoch that normal economic factors are long gone. Despite protests the clubs can practically charge what they like and run up debts with impunity that they can walk away from, just creating new phoenix clubs where necessary when it gets too bad. 

People though let them get away with it because football is simply too important to them, and they will put up with anything and pay anything for their 'fix'. I use that last word carefully. 

Yes, UK speedway's in a state, but it's far from being all the BSPA's fault. With skills which they sadly don't possess they might have been able to deflect some of the harm done by foreign pay-days but. in reality they were on a hiding to nothing. 

It might help if the 'supporters' who mouth off here might actually see the bigger picture than whingeing about 'watered down' leagues and accepted that structural change is sadly vital and on the whole we simply can't afford to pay the top talent, although some are somehow finding the cash. More fool them. 

It's time for the genuine speedway fans to stand by their sport, make allowances and for those who are simply in it for championships and the 'glamour' of names to let the rest of us try to enjoy what we still have and work to rebuild the sport rather than play pathetic 'whooshing' and 'fishing' games in this forum. The BSF should be a sounding board for ideas to rescue and rebuild UK speedway. Sadly it seems that's beyond the playground mentalities of too many 'heroes' hiding behind their hilarious false names.  

 

 

 

I think sensible people are too often wasting their breath on here, Rob. I'm with you.

Too many clueless idiots who offer no cohesive arguments using the forum as their personal attention-seeking platform.

If the cap fits, wear it.

Edited by tmc
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