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Rob B

Why speedway is failing

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I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

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Speedway is in decline because most of the people in the country don't want to go to watch it.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Clemens said:

 

 

Speedway is in decline because most of the people in the country don't want to go to watch it.

 

 

 

 

Added to that it simply isn't entertaining and not good value for money...In USA you get over 30 races..loads different ages..bikes..a great nights value and only $15..just over £10...the answer is reasonably sensible..but needs courage and intelligence

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8 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

What do think is piled in the corner at the back of Redcars pits ? It’s shale, red shale !

Oil isn’t allowed for environmental reasons wether we like it or not.

As for recruitment drive, been tried from moto X , hundreds signed up, only a few turned up for the free trial , it was so poor the scheme was abandoned.

As for Grasstrack, that is also virtually a dead sport compared to the 70’ 80’s. You’ll be lucky to see six meetings staged in the north these days and 70% of the entries are Moto x bikes .

But I do agree about slowing the bikes down.

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8 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

Redcar do use red shale, purchased at great expense from a Scottish quarry , and the binding agent is clay as oil being dropped on the track was barred years ago.

A rider is never going to say no to something that may make him faster than an opponent.

As for recruitment drive, it has been tried and it failed miserably before it even got started.

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Very interesting presentation by Paul. Agree that UK speedway has created its own problems with doubling down ......... star riders in the PL now ride in the CL as well.

Don't have any answers as the riders concerned would all probably retire if they couldnt race in both leagues, or demand more money to ride exclusively only in the PL.    

The NDL has deliberately been dumbed down by the NDL promoters and that has widened the gulf in ability between the skill level of NDL and CL which is more of a STEP than a smooth progression , with no NDL riders of a standard to score a point in the CL and thus creating a shortage of riders. 

 

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9 hours ago, ch958 said:

I have said it before but the interaction between the track and the tyres? Is there a better material? What happened to shale? A binding agent now no oil drips?

And most of all slow the bloody things down. At Redcar the riders start to slide miles before the corner, doesn't do it for me.

Every time a rider led change comes along - 4 valve, uprights, why don't they say no; neither has added to the spectator experience and its just more cash for the riders.

A recruitment drive for riders among the grass, moto x whatever community?

Your comment re how far out riders slide is spot on...

Watch the old racing on YouTube from the 70's and most riders slid the bikes well into the turn...

Meaning they often entered the turn almost straight legged before hooking the back end round midway through the turn..

Which meant room to pass the rider existed for the one behind going into the turn faster...

Now with riders virtually sideways well before the turns the track space to pass must be very narrow indeed at most circuits given the lack of width of the straights and bends...

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14 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

this is all purely for a grand prix style British championship 

first problem, they would need to be on a saturday

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11 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

As for recruitment drive, been tried from moto X , hundreds signed up, only a few turned up for the free trial , it was so poor the scheme was abandoned.

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

10 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

and the binding agent is clay as oil being dropped on the track was barred years ago.

Is bio oil an option?

10 hours ago, mikebv said:

Your comment re how far out riders slide is spot on...

Watch the old racing on YouTube from the 70's and most riders slid the bikes well into the turn...

Meaning they often entered the turn almost straight legged before hooking the back end round midway through the turn..

Which meant room to pass the rider existed for the one behind going into the turn faster...

Now with riders virtually sideways well before the turns the track space to pass must be very narrow indeed at most circuits given the lack of width of the straights and bends...

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

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1 hour ago, iainb said:

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

Is bio oil an option?

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

The riding style used to be like grass track still is..

As the rider entered the bend his aim was to find grip to propel him back down the straight as fast as he could..

And with the hard compound tyres and deep tracks, if they rode them "howling into the bends sideways" like they do today, they would have been spat off when the tyre dug in..

Nowadays riders take up a fair old chunk of the entrance to the bends when side on, with the usually slick surface allowing them confidence to do so.. 

Hence the best racing is usually to be found on the wider tracks...

As you say, at the very top level the racing is still fantastic. As it always was...

Unfortunately the vast majority of races (especially over here) are competed in now by a standard below the very top level...

 

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11 hours ago, stevehone said:

first problem, they would need to be on a saturday

Then you look to see if Eurosport can work with a Saturday program where the racing is at night time 7pm - 9.30pm programme, gates can open at 5pm with all the pre-event offerings of meet the riders, merchandise stands, start line girls, simulators, tech tent to learn more about bikes, meeting ex championships, track walks or whatever it is

Next problem will be "British riders are racing in Poland" well yes you would lose Bewley from the line up but you replace him with the next available Brit, you make the series worthwhile for those british riders who don't make it or have not made it in Poland

Another problem, stadium availability, yeah with some perhaps but if worked in advance then the majority should be fine

Another problem, what happens if there is a GP on the TV?  again its about scheduling, If Eurosport would move this to a Saturday then they would want it scheduled on non GP days anyway even if it was same day for any reason big screens at venues to not miss the GP action maybe? or punters recording it and watching it at home or people watching at home will record one and watch one live etc.

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4 hours ago, iainb said:

Were bikes taken along for moto x riders to have a go on? Or were they expected to go out of their way to a track? "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad must go to the mountain,"

Is bio oil an option?

Hmm... not so sure about this one. I think this isn't so much to do with the speed of the bikes but the ability of the riders. I remember watching the junior matches in the 2nd half at Cov back in the 80's and some riders were shutting off halfway down the straight, as you would expect them to as they were still learning to ride the bikes to their full potential. Then I remember watching Tony Rickardsson & Jason Crump at a GP practice session, also at Cov and was amazed at how they were actually opening the throttle and powering into the bends, these were the only 2 riders doing this and understandably were in a class of their own during that era. Look at Zmarzlik at the moment, bumping the fence and straight lining into the turns, the only rider with the ability to do the latter. So for me it's about rider ability... which, as good as the riders are in this country and as much as I admire them, we just don't have.

Having said all that... I do agree that the bikes do need slowing down and standardising in this country.

Interested parties details were obtained at a major moto x show., hundreds signed up. A day was set aside , bikes and kit supplied at Scunthorpe , and all the names were contacted, less than six took up the offer.
As for “ go out of there way “ or “ take the mountain to Mohammed “, where are you going to stage a speedway demonstration but at a speedway track ?!?

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If you look at Road Racing such as British Superbikes, Bemsee/MRO events which feeds riders into BSB or those that just do it for the hobby, there are 1000's of riders who all have the same goal to become World Superbike or MotoGP championship, it costs an absolutely **** load of money to progress in Superbikes, even at BSB level unless you are highly sponsored where you keep a % as a wage, 95% of riders pay to ride there are very few who get paid to race, and there is no prize money as such only incentives across certain rounds to make money

In the world paddocks in the same, bring loads of cash with limited riders getting paid to race, even some factory support seats its a paid seat

As ringsitneck has just said, you need to get people at training days with ex or current riders, why not write to kids who do Moto X, Grasstrack, mini bikes, road racing etc. and say come and give it a try, its a sport where at least you get points money, bit cheaper than the journey in road racing, even if you unearth 3 or 4 new riders per year its a start then you need to build a structure that is appealing for British youngsters to take up the sport over something else like BSB

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/15/2021 at 1:53 AM, Daniel Smith said:

Speedway doesn't need to be clever, it just needs to get "The Main Event" right. Get that right, everything else will fall in to place. 

It has virtually driven me away from  In Stadium watching because the Main Event  of 15 heats is mostly very boring and there are 3 - 5 decent races with something in them of note at the most. Slower bikes are essential for closer more skilful racing ( not to be confused with riding ).

Edited by waytogo28
spelling correction

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

If you look at Road Racing such as British Superbikes, Bemsee/MRO events which feeds riders into BSB or those that just do it for the hobby, there are 1000's of riders who all have the same goal to become World Superbike or MotoGP championship, it costs an absolutely **** load of money to progress in Superbikes, even at BSB level unless you are highly sponsored where you keep a % as a wage, 95% of riders pay to ride there are very few who get paid to race, and there is no prize money as such only incentives across certain rounds to make money

In the world paddocks in the same, bring loads of cash with limited riders getting paid to race, even some factory support seats its a paid seat

As ringsitneck has just said, you need to get people at training days with ex or current riders, why not write to kids who do Moto X, Grasstrack, mini bikes, road racing etc. and say come and give it a try, its a sport where at least you get points money, bit cheaper than the journey in road racing, even if you unearth 3 or 4 new riders per year its a start then you need to build a structure that is appealing for British youngsters to take up the sport over something else like BSB

 

I think it was the late Jon Cook who said in the SS around 10 years ago now, that they tried to attract Mx riders over..

Given certain similar traits between the two sports.

Their advertising was built around letting the Mx lads know that they could actually earn money for riding motor bikes and a figure of (I think), £4k a week was quoted as achievable.. 

Presumably riding two or three times a week.. 

This would appear a 'carrot' I would think, until how much needed to get paid out each season  reared its head...

I would suggest that if you could be competitive and have parity with all, for no more than £10k a year, the money available would be more than enough to have you trying to get involved..

When you hear that £30k (and more), is nearer the "going rate" a season, then you will always struggle to attract anyone but a kid whose parents or parent's friends/acquaintances are willing to finance the operation..

A very shallow pool to find someone from..

 

Edited by mikebv

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