Newcastle vs Redcar SGB Championship 29th May 2022- 4pm

[Fina 78]

6 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Streaming is a catch 22 situation IMO.Edinburgh seem to successfully financially because the cost is all “in house”and they have been well set up with the equipment for years now.But what you have factor in every Club is the fans are actually watching the stream for £11.99.in stead of the real Admission Cost therefore quite a lot of  home fans will see this as better value in these Financial Times,which in turn affects crowd levels paying the full amount.It is a bit of a risk given the revenue the Clubs need to generate to “ break even” regarding rents ,riders wages ect.It’s becoming an £11.99 sport admission wise.

I am sure that one of the live streams I watched last year, maybe Edinburgh, had a restriction so you had to live a certain distance away to access it.

With Redcar, I was not going last year as to get the train after work I miss the first heat, generally would also miss last heat to get back to station for last train home and add on the train ticket, its getting to a silly cost for a meeting.  This year some fans who live near me are kindly giving me a lift when ever they go, so I will only get live stream days they are not attending.

Its a difficult balance between any new fans clubs will get by streaming v losing those who would otherwise have gone to the track, but get the stream to save money.  Also its better to have fans feeling the pinch drop to live stream rather than lose them entirely.

Looking at the business side of speedway with some knowledge gained from several years as finance manager at a small horse racing track, anyone trying to make a financial success out of a speedway team has a very tough challenge as, from what I have managed to find out so far, they have very limited additional revenue streams and have to cover more of the costs.

[Fromafar 10,361]

4 minutes ago, Fina said:

I am sure that one of the live streams I watched last year, maybe Edinburgh, had a restriction so you had to live a certain distance away to access it.

With Redcar, I was not going last year as to get the train after work I miss the first heat, generally would also miss last heat to get back to station for last train home and add on the train ticket, its getting to a silly cost for a meeting.  This year some fans who live near me are kindly giving me a lift when ever they go, so I will only get live stream days they are not attending.

Its a difficult balance between any new fans clubs will get by streaming v losing those who would otherwise have gone to the track, but get the stream to save money.  Also its better to have fans feeling the pinch drop to live stream rather than lose them entirely.

Looking at the business side of speedway with some knowledge gained from several years as finance manager at a small horse racing track, anyone trying to make a financial success out of a speedway team has a very tough challenge as, from what I have managed to find out so far, they have very limited additional revenue streams and have to cover more of the costs.

Edinburgh have a 30 mile restriction.

[mikebaker 199]

Diamonds official Website is not up to date. No mention of Starke missing. And no report on last night's meeting. 

[Roger Jacobs 554]

20 hours ago, HectorRacing said:

Hahah are you sure? 

Well, they might have broken 30 with him in the team.

[KEITH M 850]

2 hours ago, Dinosaur said:

Quite apart from the poor team there’s one glaring issue that never gets mentioned and that’s the time it takes Newcastle speedway to run a meeting.  Starting at 4pm and finishing at 6:30pm just isn’t acceptable.  There were no major incidents just small delay after small delay mainly due to a lack of organisation.   Why not water the track for example while the medical officer was with Wethers !  Instead we had a delay for both !  No skirting on the air fence,  green light not working, tapes getting broken by the photographer. All silly little things that are down to a lack of professionalism.   During the delays the entertainment is dire. Roy’s drivel bores anyone to death and he interviews a random bloke off a radio station, a fan who happened to be on the center green plus a basketball player!  If you’re gonna have endless delays while people feed their faces on expensive burgers at least let’s hear from the riders or team managers. Overall it’s just a poor night out now ! 

Some people just like to moan. If it was over in an hour someone would say what was the point in stepping out the house. Jeff King has done brilliantly to push speedway on Nova radio and deserved some recognision. Young lad was 21 yesterday and is autistic, he'll remember that for the rest of his life and Lewi the Basketball player had his photo taken by his partner and it'll be on social media so we may get a few of the many fans who go and watch the Eagles come to see what HE likes. He paid in and said it was brilliant and he would tell all his mates ..With thoughts like yours , no wonder the dinosaur is extinct..

Edited May 30, 2022 by KEITH M

[cinderfella 865]

18 minutes ago, mikebaker said:

Diamonds official Website is not up to date. No mention of Starke missing. And no report on last night's meeting. 

Have the got a new Press Officer yet or were they left at the gate again?

[szkocjasid 3,024]

15 hours ago, Jaizer said:

You don't improve a product by reducing the quality to the lowest denominator. That's a recipe for disaster quicker than British speedway is going already. 

I think sedgys form so far in comparison to the 2 names aforementioned would be very desirable. As I understand the rules can apply for visas after 12 months, Grant's been in charge for far longer although I know some dispute with this being a new company I've read elsewhere might be why taken so long.

Even that situation, look at Birmingham. They've used belle Vue to sponsor Pearson and Glasgow to sponsor sedgy. There are way around it if you wish to find them.

I mean what do we do next season if a club decided to build 3/4 points below that points limit? Just keep reducing it? Here an idea, put bonus points back in GSA's. Job done

A lower points limit wouldn't necessarily mean a weaker league, the same rider would be racing, just shared out more equally between the teams!

[szkocjasid 3,024]

1 hour ago, cinderfella said:

The other factor streaming solves is dodgy weather forecasts.

If I was faced with the prospect of a 2 hour round trip and the possibility of a rain-off I know what I'd choose.

Clubs have to be careful though because a £12 stream can be watched by a roomful of people in a warm room with a good atmosphere and that could be a couple of hundred pounds in lost revenue to the team. I know EMTV is not available within a certain distance of Armadale but if there is another attractive meeting being streamed from elsewhere that evening I'm sure the weather (or opposition) would influence the decision.

That can work both ways, say there's a poor weather forecast, 50 fans decide to stay at home & watch the stream (maybe 30 sales), but if there was no stream maybe only 25 fans would give it a miss & the others chance it is on?

Streaming would help a club if a fan decides not to go in bad weather, but not if they would have gone if there was no stream to watch!

[ch958 2,395]

13 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

A lower points limit wouldn't necessarily mean a weaker league, the same rider would be racing, just shared out more equally between the teams!

This is the hoary old chestnut. The product is close racing not big names (and lets face it they're not actually big names in the 2nd div just big fish in a small pond).

The secondary issue is the route from div 3 to div 2 which is presently clogged with div 1 riders. 

[Mimmo 1,070]

2 hours ago, cinderfella said:

The thing is do people want meetings to be over quickly or do they want more entertainment, junior races, etc for their money.

When you consider actual racing probably takes between 15 and 18 minutes depending on the length of the track speedway doesn't offer good value for money.

Quite a few meetings I attend, people start to leave as soon as the interval comes, which is usually around Heat 11.  They've basically got fed up standing around watch the track being graded.  I agree about junior races as a second-half attraction, if that's when you meant it to be, and am personally all for that, but history in the modern era shows that the majority of people leave the stadium once the Main Event has finished.

So my point, although that's not what your commenting on, is maybe the presenters at these meetings, could ask those leaving two thirds of the way through the meeting, why they are doing so.  Maybe it isn't the tractor racing, but I wouldn't mind betting it is.     

Edited May 30, 2022 by Mimmo

[cinderfella 865]

Just out of interest can anyone tell me (since we don't have in Scotland (yet???) how attendances and admission prices at flat track meetings compares to speedway and how many riders/heats/classes are there?

I'm assuming flat track will be generally amateur so wondering how it compares and if speedway can learn anything from its cousin?

Would having different classes based on engine size, age of machine etc make speedway meetings more interesting and/or entertaining.

Would returning to semi-professional status reduce costs and perhaps even.make it more accessible for youngsters to try especially if we get away from specialised engines? 

[MRA 4]

3 minutes ago, Mimmo said:

Quite a few meetings I attend, people start to leave as soon as the interval comes, which is usually around Heat 11.  They've basically got fed up standing around watch the track being graded.  I agree about junior races as a second-half attraction, if that's when you meant it to be, and am personally all for that, but history in the modern era shows that the majority of people leave the stadium once the Main Event has finished.

So my point, although that's not what your commenting on, is maybe the presenters at these meetings, could ask those leaving two thirds of the way through the meeting, why they are doing so.  Maybe it isn't the tractor racing, but I wouldn't mind betting it is.     

The Problem with speedway is that the premier and championship leagues comprise of the same riders (44 riders out of 51) are championship riders riding in the premiership. There is no easy route for young riders to progress which means the sport will stagnate and will only survive by loosing one or two team per season. I have seen the sport decline season by season from the 1980s. The problem is the biggest gang of promoters sets the rules each season. Last year young riders were brought into the league but it had minor problems like Leon Flint staying at reserve on a seven point average. Instead of amending this to say any riders gets over 5 must go into the main body of the team for x number of matches. It was scrapped. Every season the rules change which will always be detrimental to the sport.

[Winditon 233]

5 hours ago, HendoWozGud said:

Forgive me for adding fuel to the fire but the negativity from the moment I walked into the stadium until the moment I left was palpable. At times I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Clearly the Diamonds fans I spoke with, and some of them are very long-standing ones as well, have had enough. They already appear to be voting with their feet as the attendance yesterday was poor and without the Redcar fans it would have been dreadful.

Someone said there was no atmosphere. There was from the Redcar fans but even they by the end were not as loud as they had been as they seemed somewhat embarrassed at how easy it was. Lest not anyone forget that they were excellent, really attacked the track and looked like a team that has been racing consistently and were on their metal.

Newcastle on the other hand were completely the opposite. Very, very rusty indeed apart from Howarth and again he's racing consistently. Losing Starke before the meeting was a huge blow. It may even get bigger if the rumours about him are true. Not my rumours BTW but rumours none-the-less. The Diamonds need a decision on BWD. Either get him fit and see what he's got to offer or cut him loose.

Wethers may well have a broken foot and be out for some time. The experiment of Congreve and Complin has been a disaster. One clearly is not ready for the show and whilst it's commendable that he spent so much of his own money, took the gamble to try and make it over here and can be applauded for doing so it's clear he's not good enough and the Management need to remember they are running a business.

The other reserve may or may not have suffered some poor refereeing decisions but in six rides he failed to score a point on his own track and when you weigh up that against what younger, fitter, hungrier reserves did in opposition again it begs the question that will he ever be good enough?

Clegg was clearly upset during the meeting and afterwards and his head just doesn't appear to be in it. Around Brough he's great, usually, but he needs more rides elsewhere if possible as he's another suffering from lack of track time. He has it within himself but his confidence and will seems lost at the moment.

Don't disagree within the current crop of riders of having Wright as captain but it's hard when he hardly sets his own track alight to see how he can inspire and help anyone around him. He's another clearly struggling for form and direction and until he finds that or indeed if he finds that can not be expected to be able to help others around him. 

It does perhaps seem a bit harsh to say that Heat 2 was the killer yesterday but it was. The feeling in both sets of camps when that race was completed and the riders returned to the pits was insane. One team already looked beaten and the other knew their opposition was there for the taking.

Have I any ideas where Newcastle can improve? No! But I'll tell you this, they do need to do so and quickly as it could be another track walk in September to remember what used to be. I do believe that Rob, Dave, Steve and those behind them are doing everything they can to change things around and are working night and day to try and change things.

They are not stupid, they are realists and they can see themselves just as the fans can that things need to change. Questions are 1.) have the will to do it? 2.) have they the money to do it? and 3.) if the answers to 1 & 2 are yes, have the riders they approach have the belief that they can do it?

From the outside looking in it's a mess. Leicester and Poole are the next two home meetings. Hardly a sobering thought for an administration and Club clearly out of sorts and battling against the odds. No BWD, no Starke and losing Wethers about two solid rides are all things that need to be taken into consideration. This is a side that is about to go into June and haven't had a chance, sometimes not of their own doing, to gel and become consistent. They may never get that.

I could urge patience. I could implore fans not to lose faith but it's very difficult to see that happening given the current situation. The terraces are just as shorn of regular committed fans as they are of new faces coming to watch. Speedway is a sport that is a spectacular and worthy one to support but it's very difficult to do so when the team you're watching week-in, week-out are so ineffective.

I also say that with the greatest respect to the guys going out there. They are trying their best but it's obvious they are not feeling it whether it's with themselves, with their machinery, with the promotion and management or just speedway life in general and that's hard to see and accept as fans.

One thing I would like to say and in some ways it might be another negative from a positive was the track. Without doubt the best I've seen it in years and seemed very smooth and fast reflected in the race times given out. Perhaps then that's one problem solved and now the Promotion and Management can move on to the next? 

Let's hope so as when I drove away from Brough Park last night I was seriously wondering how many, including myself, can continue to turn up and watch a famous, historic part of British Speedway slowly and painfully slip away.

Totally agree with your post. Not sure how much difference it would have made up to now but not having a team manager who can't motivate and seems pretty clueless doesn't help. Not sure if he does it voluntary but it needs addressing in my opinion. Let's hope we can turn it around 

[Sings4Speedway 3,247]

11 minutes ago, cinderfella said:

Just out of interest can anyone tell me (since we don't have in Scotland (yet???) how attendances and admission prices at flat track meetings compares to speedway and how many riders/heats/classes are there?

I'm assuming flat track will be generally amateur so wondering how it compares and if speedway can learn anything from its cousin?

Would having different classes based on engine size, age of machine etc make speedway meetings more interesting and/or entertaining.

Would returning to semi-professional status reduce costs and perhaps even.make it more accessible for youngsters to try especially if we get away from specialised engines? 

Ssshhhh....don't mention Flat Track. If any promotor stopped and thought about riders turning up and paying them to ride they would shut up shop in an instant. Very easy to see that pay to ride, practice days, amateur events can all generate a decent income for a venue (that has sensible out goings)  clearly wouldn't work everywhere but suits some. 

The issue with amateur/individual based is that you just won't get the attendances of riders or spectators in sufficient numbers over a sufficient amount of weeks. Interest might peak early on but will be very quiet before the season is out (and thats based upon happening on an appealing race day like a weekend) . The IOW are making it work but they have an exceptional team and ethos and the levels they put in would simply baffle most promotions.

[cinderfella 865]

10 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Ssshhhh....don't mention Flat Track. If any promotor stopped and thought about riders turning up and paying them to ride they would shut up shop in an instant. Very easy to see that pay to ride, practice days, amateur events can all generate a decent income for a venue (that has sensible out goings)  clearly wouldn't work everywhere but suits some. 

The issue with amateur/individual based is that you just won't get the attendances of riders or spectators in sufficient numbers over a sufficient amount of weeks. Interest might peak early on but will be very quiet before the season is out (and thats based upon happening on an appealing race day like a weekend) . The IOW are making it work but they have an exceptional team and ethos and the levels they put in would simply baffle most promotions.

Thanks for your answer. As I said we've not had a Flat Track meeting up here in Scotland and we don't have grasstrack either which is perhaps why we have a lack of riders of a certain standard up here.