Sgp Challenge Final

[HenryW 1,178]

Harris does not have 8.00

He started the season at 6.90 and have increased it to 7,08.

I took my figures from a Polish site. They almost agree on the details for Harris with the site you linked to, but credit him with 1 less race and quote averages including bonus points.

 

If he has taken that extra race, his average is 7.90 including bonus points!

[tocha 308]

And now BSI are gonna give a charity wild card for Harris (5th time in a row?). Is he better than Kolodziej? No, he's not... but that's politics.

 

Its not politics, its SKY

[marcel 0]

I wouldn't.

To drop Woffinden after this season would be an admission from BSI that they made a huge mistake in nominating him for this season and they don't take easily to that sort of thing. In view of this, I'd say that Woffinden is ahead of Harris and Nicholls. The only problem is that strange condition known as "second season syndrome".

yes maybe but given the long long que of talent capable and waiting id say no. maybe in 2 -3 years time tai come back.im english and if im honest theres no english rider strong enough at moment to warrant being in this series. like zorro was considered being the underdog but even he imo has done better than the brits

[ladyluck 1]

yes maybe but given the long long que of talent capable and waiting id say no. maybe in 2 -3 years time tai come back.im english and if im honest theres no english rider strong enough at moment to warrant being in this series.

 

The worry has to be that BSI stick with Woffinden and he subsequently gets caught in the same spiral of failure that captured Nicholls and Harris. Nicholls was a rider with enormous promise, but continual nominations after failure led to a terrible waste of that promise. You get sucked into a delusion. Doing nothing much gets you back into the GPs year after year, so you do nothing very much. As I said earlier, contrast a Harris or a Nicholls with Rune Holta. Even Kelvin Tatum finally worked that one out, as he noted during the meeting on Monday. Harris has never qualified because he's never needed to qualify.

[spook 28]

but now lets get into the real world Marcel

 

whether we like them or not ... the facts are that BSI/IMG have consistently on an annual basis given the brits wildcards.... to the degree where they have embarrassed themselves on a couple of occasions now

 

so we can assume that this mission of IMG's isnt just going to evaporate overnight??.... I think it is safe to say that no matter what we post or posture with there will be at least one Brit in the championship next season

 

The good news though is that IMG are under more pressure than they have ever been under to weaken the Brit representation down to just one.....and I think it is going to happen.... can they really bring Tai back over Greg or Kolodziej (AJ, Hans or Nicki)? ...... there never has been any investment into Tai despite what others will have you believe..... just a very premature and naive wildcard that has been proven as such............... the only chance for two brits is if someone gets on the sherry and decides that Nicholls will come good this time (ie learn hows to gate, watches the lines that everyone else takes, has good machinery, and a professional setup and approach for the entire season)

 

 

Its racing like tonight that reminds us that its a poor era for the British rider but we do still have one guy who belongs in the company...... and maybe the blessing and improvement for next season's championship is that its more obvious than ever that we do just literally have one

[HenryW 1,178]

whether we like them or not ... the facts are that BSI/IMG have consistently on an annual basis given the brits wildcards.... to the degree where they have embarrassed themselves on a couple of occasions now

I know it's a little off topic, but looking at the current state of Brits in the SGP, how amazing is it that back in 1999, just 1 year before his title, with 22 permanent riders rather than just 15...Mark Loram DIDN'T get a regular place in the series because there were already 3 Brits in there...

 

Oh how times have changed...

[tocha 308]

The sooner we accept that Britain is no longer an elite speedway nation the better. The reason is quite valid. There are too many other high profile sports in this country to compete against. Poland claims Speedway to be their no.1 sport. I suspect, in reality, it is on par, or just second to football. In all probability, it is the same situation in Denmark. Whatever, they are high profile sports in their respective countries. They don't have to compete against other major events. In other words, I don't see them involved in world class cricket, rugby, tennis, golf, or staging top league PL football or being the mainstay of formula one etc. Without doing any detailed research, I doubt that it ranks within the top 30 sports in the UK and is, to all intents and purposes and, despite the efforts of SKY SPORTS, a forgotten sport. I cannot help but notice that most young British riders entering the sport are only there through junior grasstrack, because their dads used to ride, or both. Because Speedway is marketed poorly, why would anyone think of becoming a rider if they do not know of its existence! (This does not excuse, of course, the continuous influx of Australians who succeed for no other reason than being Australian and who take to sport like ducks to water!).

[ladyluck 1]

I cannot help but notice that most young British riders entering the sport are only there through junior grasstrack, because their dads used to ride, or both.

 

To be fair, if you look back into the history of Polish speedway you find a lot of familiar names. A lot of the current Polish riders are carrying on a family tradition.

[spook 28]

I know it's a little off topic, but looking at the current state of Brits in the SGP, how amazing is it that back in 1999, just 1 year before his title, with 22 permanent riders rather than just 15...Mark Loram DIDN'T get a regular place in the series because there were already 3 Brits in there...

 

Oh how times have changed...

 

it almost makes it look like the decline has only taken place during the last decade!...... I just had to check 99 as the alzheimers is kicking in these days..... Screen and Louis were hot property in those days ...along with Andy Smith honing his limpet impression .. numbers of swedish riders had become out of control though which probably had more to do with it

 

I'd love to hear a get together of our last decent generation (Loram, Screen, Louis, Tatum) to see what they have to say about it all and what they think the differences are between now and then

[ballinger 32]

Care to explain what format you would like to see that take?

 

Happily Henry, the semi finalists from one GP automatically start in the next GP, the remaining 7 (excluding the local wildcard) have to pre-qualify along with 7 others and 2 local nominations. Top 5 from pre-qualifying start in the GP along with 2 BSI picks, and 1 local wild card.

 

Pre-qualifying to be staged on the Friday, on a secondary track, the 7 others paying an entry fee to compete, the entry fee to be no more than 50% of the prize money for 16th place in the GP.

[BigFatDave 258]

I'd love to hear a get together of our last decent generation (Loram, Screen, Louis, Tatum) to see what they have to say about it all and what they think the differences are between now and then

Judging from Kelvin's performance on SKY last monday ("Did you know there's 38 Aussies, that's right, 38, riding in GB?" "38!") I've got a pretty good idea where the blame will fall.

 

No Havelock? No Stonehewer?

[HenryW 1,178]

it almost makes it look like the decline has only taken place during the last decade!...... I just had to check 99 as the alzheimers is kicking in these days..... Screen and Louis were hot property in those days ...along with Andy Smith honing his limpet impression .. numbers of swedish riders had become out of control though which probably had more to do with it

In all honesty, GB probably hasn't been a genuine force since about the late 70's or very early 80's, but it has got much, much worse in the last 10 years.

Let's not forget that in the mid 80's we were pretty hopeless as well...84 and 85 there was only one Brit in the World Final. It got a bit better for a few years after that, but in all honesty the guys involved were not genuine contenders. Tatum and Wigg flirted with the best, but were never quite good enough. The only other one in that period that seriously got into the mix was Cross. The others, despite making World Finals were not in the top bracket...As evidence of that I offer up Thorp, Knight and Evitts to name but three...

 

Having said that, we always had someone who could mix it with the best even if they couldn't deliver consistently over a season. The only year since the late 70's/early 80's that you could genuinely say that we had a consistent winner was 1992, and Havvy just shone for 1 year and then fizzled out.

 

Since the early 2000's we haven't even had a contender.

 

Happily Henry, the semi finalists from one GP automatically start in the next GP, the remaining 7 (excluding the local wildcard) have to pre-qualify along with 7 others and 2 local nominations. Top 5 from pre-qualifying start in the GP along with 2 BSI picks, and 1 local wild card.

 

Pre-qualifying to be staged on the Friday, on a secondary track, the 7 others paying an entry fee to compete, the entry fee to be no more than 50% of the prize money for 16th place in the GP.

I actually think that I have suggested on here in the past that I would like to see something similar. The current 15 rider field with 1 wildcard is just not big enough.

The short period where they used 24 man fields in the GPs was much more interesting as you got to see some different names making an impression. There are probably about 5 or 6 riders are that are truly, consistently, better than the rest. Then there is a group of maybe something like 15 or 20+ that on their day/track can match the best, but can also just as likely be hopeless. Limiting the field to 15 isn't the best.

 

However, I can certainly see issues with the format that you suggest. Just to mention 2 issues...

How do you decide who gets to race on the Friday? I can imagine about 20+ Poles wanting to be involved in that match for a Polish GP...

Is it sensible to run the pre-qualifier on a different track? For example, before Leszno you hold a round at Zielona Gora and get someone like Walasek or PePe coasting through, who offer very little on the actual GP track but are a specialist on ZG track!

 

 

Judging from Kelvin's performance on SKY last monday ("Did you know there's 38 Aussies, that's right, 38, riding in GB?" "38!") I've got a pretty good idea where the blame will fall.

Not 100% sure of your point here, so I am just taking a guess that you thought he was criticising this situation...I don't think he actually said that, and he may very well not have meant that...He may just have been expressing some surprise at how well the Aussies were training up their kids to get into the league.

 

The recent success of Australia, Poland and Russia at bringing through young riders is something that British Speedway should really be looking at. Especially in the cases of Australia and Russia where the domestic scene for pros isn't exactly great, but they are finding and training the talent...

[Peter S. 4]

The sooner we accept that Britain is no longer an elite speedway nation the better. The reason is quite valid. There are too many other high profile sports in this country to compete against. Poland claims Speedway to be their no.1 sport. I suspect, in reality, it is on par, or just second to football. In all probability, it is the same situation in Denmark. Whatever, they are high profile sports in their respective countries. They don't have to compete against other major events. In other words, I don't see them involved in world class cricket, rugby, tennis, golf, or staging top league PL football or being the mainstay of formula one etc. Without doing any detailed research, I doubt that it ranks within the top 30 sports in the UK and is, to all intents and purposes and, despite the efforts of SKY SPORTS, a forgotten sport. I cannot help but notice that most young British riders entering the sport are only there through junior grasstrack, because their dads used to ride, or both. Because Speedway is marketed poorly, why would anyone think of becoming a rider if they do not know of its existence! (This does not excuse, of course, the continuous influx of Australians who succeed for no other reason than being Australian and who take to sport like ducks to water!).

In Denmark speedway isn´t a top sport, maybe not even in top 10. We have no national speedway televised, not even the danish final this year. SGP/SWC are shown on the minor channel DK4, their best event this year was the SWC final with around 300.000 viewers. Our superleagu meeting has an attendance averaging around 1200 attenders. Look at the youth speedway systems instead.

Regards

Peter

[hagonshocker 1,956]

Hopeful scenario of Freddie moving into top 8 to allow Kolodziej in...but how desperate will he be now?...Janusz deserves to be in...but NO Brits deserve a wildcard especially 2..that would be taking the rise.

Disagree with Shovlar (now theres a thing) about Laguta the gp's need fresh blood each season and Artem is definatly a talent in the same mould as Emil and Holder

[lucifer sam 3,953]

In the early days of the Grand Prix you could hardly move for British riders - in the 1996 series, there were SIX British riders amongst the 17 competitors.

 

And when seeded riders were first brought at the end of the 2001 season ready for the 2002 season, there was no need to seed in any British riders. But three, yes three, Poles were amongst the six seeds. How times have changed.

 

All the best

Rob