frostylion 35 Posted June 3, 2011 has anyone asked the promotion what paper work he is waiting for,all he needs is a passport,which im sure he has if he has landed in the uk? Or did he use his valid aussie passport!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aljack 38 Posted June 3, 2011 Give the poor lad a chance his feet arnt even on the ground yet! Im sure "can he ride/ cant he ride" saga will all be sorted out soon enough, and if he cant im sure he will enjoy visiting our wonderful friendly country full of fantastic speedway clubs and friendly supporters across the length and width of the country. Rogue Trader if you want to give mildenhall your home address im sure they will send you a copy of all his documents for your approval , Great post "fentigers79" what you state is so so correct, lets hope all make Cameron Heeps very welcome and he ends the season at no6 for the Witches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Needles 4 Posted June 3, 2011 Great post "fentigers79" what you state is so so correct, lets hope all make Cameron Heeps very welcome and he ends the season at no6 for the Witches Cameron Heeps is 15 (dob 27.10.1995). As stated by others (which you obviously didn't read/took no notice of (delete as appropriate)) he can't ride in the PL until he is 16. So please give it a rest about Cameron ending the season as No.6 for the Witches this year. He can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
villiers210 61 Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) If you read the rules I think every NL team breaks the rules!! As far as I know no NL team signed a number 8 at the start of the season but the rules state quite categorically, in bold no less, that every initial declaration must consist a squad of 8 riders. My reading is that all swings on whether Cameron has a UK passport. If has a UK passport he can ride in the NL as per the rule 17.9.3. This is the also the rule that states UK Patriality qualifies a rider to ride in the NL too. However, it appears that Cameron is too young to claim UK Patriality. ---------------------------- My view is that Cameron would add to the league and is not just a change for the sake of change. He's clearly a better rider than the rider he would replace. The league must be an attractive product to the paying public, and not just a training ground for riders that are not up to NL racing standard yet. I'm not going to name names but I've seen a few riders that have been off the pace and I would have no problem with one foreign rider, of any nationality, per team to make sure that the league isn't propped up by substandard riders. The alternative is a higher points limit so some Brits such as Birkinshaw and Warwick etc aren't frozen out of the league. Either option would be a step forward in my opinion. Perhaps a short second half to NL meetings with four man teams where the reserves become heat leaders and anyone on 3.00 average, or lower if an actual average was recorded at a lower value, takes up the other two places. This gives the NL reserves, who may only have had three rides in the main part of the meeting, extra experience and the lesser standard riders still get 'proper' racing without being left half a lap behind by NL heat leaders and even second strings in some cases. Couldnt agree more with you - the idea of having basically English riders only is all well and good but:- (1) Is there enough half decent English riders to go round - look at the trouble IOW are having at the minute as an example (2) It will only work if there is somewhere for them to progress to. The Premier league should also have some kind of restriction on foreign riders to allow the up and coming NL league riders to naturally progress. My point is that anybody who does reasonably well in the NL will stagnate if they are not given the chance to up their game and prove themselves against better opposition. Edited June 3, 2011 by villiers210 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2ndbendpostie 28 Posted June 3, 2011 Not having had any experience of employing people from overseas, is the thing here mainly about age then, and say a lad of 18 from another country wanted to ride in the National lewague then would it be no problem ?. Just a bit confused as in a modern day world where phrases like "restriction of trade" have been used when its been suggested football teams be limited to x amount of foreign players in their sides. Also would the speedway rules be watertight regarding this in a court of law ? Just curious as obviously having flown all the way over from Australia someone somewhere must be pretty sure of themselves of his eligibility. As far as I am concerned if any league team gets exciting riders from anywhere its ok with me, speedway is an entertainment and as such needs the best riders available to bring in the crowds, and not ones who just happen to British. Giving places to Brits "just because" actually can make them less competetive because the numbers of good riders is much less than the number of team places available, allow Johnny Foreigner in and suddenly the others have to up their game or lose there place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
villiers210 61 Posted June 3, 2011 Not having had any experience of employing people from overseas, is the thing here mainly about age then, and say a lad of 18 from another country wanted to ride in the National lewague then would it be no problem ?. Indeed it WOULD be a problem. As far as I am aware (and Im sure somebody will have a different view) there are NO foreign riders allowed in the NL at all unless they also hold a full British passport, or have dual nationality and are over 17 years of age and claim UK patriality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swift Saint 186 Posted June 3, 2011 I have resisted entering this argument my views being already well known and I remain very patriotic. At the start of the season all NL teams were built on the premise of no foreign riders. I am at a loss to see how that can now be changed without giving an advantage to team(s) who enlist such a rider. If this young man has a British Passport he is ok. If he hasn't, at least until he is 17, he is not ok to race here. The fines for going outside the law are very heavy and I believe would ultimately be the responsibility of the BSPA. So I am sure that they will make the correct decision given all of the evidence which none of us here have access to. Having said that a British Passport would seem to be what is required. The last thing we need is a repeat of the Tyson Nelson fiasco last season when He was allowed to ride at Scunthorpe for Rye House and then his points were later docked. I await the outcome with interest and more than a little sympathy for Nick Laurence Malcolm Vasey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Great Central 226 Posted June 3, 2011 I have resisted entering this argument my views being already well known and I remain very patriotic. At the start of the season all NL teams were built on the premise of no foreign riders. I am at a loss to see how that can now be changed without giving an advantage to team(s) who enlist such a rider. If this young man has a British Passport he is ok. If he hasn't, at least until he is 17, he is not ok to race here. The fines for going outside the law are very heavy and I believe would ultimately be the responsibility of the BSPA. So I am sure that they will make the correct decision given all of the evidence which none of us here have access to. Having said that a British Passport would seem to be what is required. The last thing we need is a repeat of the Tyson Nelson fiasco last season when He was allowed to ride at Scunthorpe for Rye House and then his points were later docked. I await the outcome with interest and more than a little sympathy for Nick Laurence Malcolm Vasey Malcolm, What a balanced posting from somebody so passionate as you about the NL. We certainly don't want a repeat of the Nelson incident since that really does not do the sport any good. Martin Widman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted June 4, 2011 I have resisted entering this argument my views being already well known and I remain very patriotic. At the start of the season all NL teams were built on the premise of no foreign riders. I am at a loss to see how that can now be changed without giving an advantage to team(s) who enlist such a rider. If this young man has a British Passport he is ok. If he hasn't, at least until he is 17, he is not ok to race here. The fines for going outside the law are very heavy and I believe would ultimately be the responsibility of the BSPA. So I am sure that they will make the correct decision given all of the evidence which none of us here have access to. Having said that a British Passport would seem to be what is required. The last thing we need is a repeat of the Tyson Nelson fiasco last season when He was allowed to ride at Scunthorpe for Rye House and then his points were later docked. I await the outcome with interest and more than a little sympathy for Nick Laurence Malcolm Vasey We rarely agree Malcolm, but you have hit the nail on the head here. The rules are Brits only, so unless he has a British passport he is an ineligible rider in the national league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryW 1,178 Posted June 4, 2011 Cameron Heeps is 15 (dob 27.10.1995). As stated by others (which you obviously didn't read/took no notice of (delete as appropriate)) he can't ride in the PL until he is 16. So please give it a rest about Cameron ending the season as No.6 for the Witches this year. He can't. Yes he can. The UK season officially ends on the 31st of October. He can do 5 days of racing for the Witches this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted June 4, 2011 We rarely agree Malcolm, but you have hit the nail on the head here. The rules are Brits only, so unless he has a British passport he is an ineligible rider in the national league. I think Malcolm and I agree more than we disagree (although when we do disagree it tends to be somewhat violently) but there's no doubt here he is dead right, both in terms of the letter and spirit of the applicable regulations. Whether we happen to agree with those regulations (and I don't) is an entirely separate issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,658 Posted June 4, 2011 I think Malcolm and I agree more than we disagree (although when we do disagree it tends to be somewhat violently) but there's no doubt here he is dead right, both in terms of the letter and spirit of the applicable regulations. Whether we happen to agree with those regulations (and I don't) is an entirely separate issue. I think the really important point is that even if we do want to see more Aussie's riding here, bending the rules for someone like Cam Heeps has a significant risk. Another Tyson Nelson style debacle could lead to the British Authorities tightening the rules further. The immigration authorities could take the view that the BSPA is incapable(!) of policing the existing rules and tighten them further preventing many riders currently here from riding. [Only EU riders have a right to work here] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gypilgrim 0 Posted June 4, 2011 This is all about the unseemly haste of the Ipswich promotion to tie up Heeps for the Witches and then pocket the sell-on fee to Poole (or other Elite team). ergo Darcy Ward a couple of years ago with Boston/King's Lynn. Trouble is the rules have changed since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2ndbendpostie 28 Posted June 4, 2011 This is all about the unseemly haste of the Ipswich promotion to tie up Heeps for the Witches and then pocket the sell-on fee to Poole (or other Elite team). ergo Darcy Ward a couple of years ago with Boston/King's Lynn. Trouble is the rules have changed since then. Now you see from where I am sitting that is damn good business sense and I see nothing wrong with unseemly haste when there is a quid to be made, speedway promotors should be no different to any other entertainment promotor, and they will have bills to pay like anyone else, so bloody good luck to Ipswich if you are correct in your assumption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jennywren 1 Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Now you see from where I am sitting that is damn good business sense and I see nothing wrong with unseemly haste when there is a quid to be made, speedway promotors should be no different to any other entertainment promotor, and they will have bills to pay like anyone else, so bloody good luck to Ipswich if you are correct in your assumption. Fully agree, you don't get anywhere in a competitive market if you hang around. I understand that several clubs were trying to get his signature so either they were also being hasty, their owners also thought that he was eligible or they thought they could get him accepted by the powers that be (e.g. they are possibly in a more influential position in the sport). Edited June 4, 2011 by ASV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
