Berwick Survival.

[neil3065 21]

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it harder to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

Edited November 19, 2012 by neil3065

[screm 8,057]

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it hard to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

 

As far as I know its PL or nothing,as their statement of intending to run in the PL at the recent AGM indicates,as Ive posted Im sure we will run next year.

[Fromafar 10,378]

I was with you all the way...........until that last point. The use of the Joker in SWC last season did more damage to the argument supporting tactical changes than anything else I have ever seen or heard.

 

However...........

 

The tactical change rule has been in force in speedway for 50 years. Some meetings are dead after 5 heats without it, and it gives the opportunity for those matches to stay alive.

 

Every time someone comes in as tactical change, there is more emphasis on the race - a bit like having a last heat decider in the middle of the meeting.

 

Both of the above create more excitement, and there's no-one who would deny that. Isn't that what speedway is all about ?

 

The TR rule effects heats by 3 points. The TS rule can effect a heat by up to 8, and it costs a lot, lot more. TR all the way for me.

 

People point to other sports and suggest that no other has something similar. Perhaps we should introduce an offside rule into speedway instead. The simple fact is speedway is entirely different, so its rules not only can be but need to be different too.

 

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable. I find those who knock it either can't make a cogent argument against it, don't like speedway and use it to bash the sport, or attempt to pander to the bashers (which is a waste of time).

 

It might suit top heavy teams, but when's the last time one won the league ? That's all about balance, and the most top heavy team in the PL in 2012 finished bottom.

I was with you all the way...........until that last point. The use of the Joker in SWC last season did more damage to the argument supporting tactical changes than anything else I have ever seen or heard.

 

However...........

 

The tactical change rule has been in force in speedway for 50 years. Some meetings are dead after 5 heats without it, and it gives the opportunity for those matches to stay alive.

 

Every time someone comes in as tactical change, there is more emphasis on the race - a bit like having a last heat decider in the middle of the meeting.

 

Both of the above create more excitement, and there's no-one who would deny that. Isn't that what speedway is all about ?

 

The TR rule effects heats by 3 points. The TS rule can effect a heat by up to 8, and it costs a lot, lot more. TR all the way for me.

 

People point to other sports and suggest that no other has something similar. Perhaps we should introduce an offside rule into speedway instead. The simple fact is speedway is entirely different, so its rules not only can be but need to be different too.

 

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable. I find those who knock it either can't make a cogent argument against it, don't like speedway and use it to bash the sport, or attempt to pander to the bashers (which is a waste of time).

 

It might suit top heavy teams, but when's the last time one won the league ? That's all about balance, and the most top heavy team in the PL in 2012 finished bottom.

Your point regarding is Wtc is valid but lets face it it has been done a numerous times in league matches just not as blatent and does bring tactics into other races regarding the match score at the time IMO .Still thats the rules as they stand.

[bigeddiechek 1,094]

The difference in the playing fields in speedway - way, way greater than football, rugby league, cricket, ice hockey or any other sport - means that having a rule that assists away teams is far more justifiable.

That's the best case I've heard for it yet.

 

It still doesn't change the newcomers' views that it is a joke (the ones that came with me, anyway).

 

However, as WJM pointed out, there is the away goal counting double in football.

I'll use these two points to explain it in the future, regardless of whether or not I like it.

 

Good debate and discussion!

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Your point regarding is Wtc is valid but lets face it it has been done a numerous times in league matches just not as blatent and does bring tactics into other races regarding the match score at the time IMO .Still thats the rules as they stand.

 

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

That's the best case I've heard for it yet.

 

It still doesn't change the newcomers' views that it is a joke (the ones that came with me, anyway).

 

However, as WJM pointed out, there is the away goal counting double in football.

I'll use these two points to explain it in the future, regardless of whether or not I like it.

 

Good debate and discussion!

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

Really hope Berwick survive, its a cracking track and a decent stadium.

 

They've had plenty of decent riders up there in recent seasons, but sadly very few trophies to show for it. Trouble is, when you've had decent riders and won a trophy and the crowds still arent at a decent level, then it makes it harder to keep signing those riders.

 

Is the National League a potential 'better than nothing' option for the Bandits in 2013?!

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[bigeddiechek 1,094]

What a great post Halifaxtiger

[Fromafar 10,378]

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

 

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

 

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

What happened at the WTC was so blatant it was ridiculous. While any form of tactical change is potentially open to abuse, I have been to over 140 matches in the last two seasons and I don't think it happened once.

 

The decision to restrict it heats 1-12 was a master stroke, destroying the possibility of ridiculous races at the end of meetings when they were mostly likely to occur.

 

 

 

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

I could make a fair argument that the offside rule in football is a joke. The only difference is the majority of the public are more used to it.

 

On a final note, the tactical change rule is pretty much irrelevant when taking in to account how brilliant watching 4 blokes on bikes without brakes can truly be. I will never understand anyone that stops going (or doesn't come) for the sake of a rule.

 

 

 

Its the step up they have made since John Anderson took over that is quite remarkable. Its the same place, yet it is completely different.

Seen quite a few races where a specific heat result was what was required to prevent other Team using the tactical ride ,like I say not as blatant.But like I said thats the rule so good team managing in my view although I dont like the rule.

[The White Knight 9,039]

I think many newcomers might view it that way (I have had the same problem) and I'd say that is because it is unique to speedway.

 

That doesn't mean its wrong, though, or it destroys the sports credibility. In my view, it enhances it once you become aware of the actual reasoning behind it and the effect it can have. I saw an amazing meeting at Sheffield last season (v Glasgow) that was only amazing because the tactical ride rule was in force.

 

 

 

i) Not only newcomers to the Sport.

 

ii) Oh yes it does HT - I know we will never agree on this but believe me - it does.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

i) Not only newcomers to the Sport.

 

ii) Oh yes it does HT - I know we will never agree on this but believe me - it does.

 

I have made my case for tactical rides above.

 

With the greatest of respect to you (and others) I'll only start questioning that view when I hear a counter argument that is more substantial than 'unfair' or 'destroys credibility'.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[The White Knight 9,039]

I have made my case for tactical rides above.

 

With the greatest of respect to you (and others) I'll only start questioning that view when I hear a counter argument that is more substantial than 'unfair' or 'destroys credibility'.

 

Fair enough HT - but - they are both, provably, very good arguments. Those arguments should not be dismissed out of hand.

[Tsunami 10,219]

Fair enough HT - but - they are both, provably, very good arguments. Those arguments should not be dismissed out of hand.

 

I'll ask you again Ian. If Sunderland Speedway open up again, would you walk away from the sport if TR's continued.

[samsplint 49]

I prefered the old tac sub rule

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Fair enough HT - but - they are both, provably, very good arguments. Those arguments should not be dismissed out of hand.

 

I'll dismiss any argument out of hand when that argument consists of one word.

[The White Knight 9,039]

I'll ask you again Ian. If Sunderland Speedway open up again, would you walk away from the sport if TR's continued.

 

(Sigh :sad: )

 

In honesty Dave - probably not. Does that make me a hypocrite - it probably does. Does it make any difference to my detestation of the Rule - no it doesn't - not one jot.

 

The probability is that I will not walk away from Newcastle either when the new Season comes round - but, my goodness I DO feel like it every time I see the Black and White Helmet Cover.

 

Before you comment Dave - it has NOTHING to do with the fact that the Helmet Cover is Black and White. I would feel EXACTLY the same if it was Red and White!!

 

I'll dismiss any argument out of hand when that argument consists of one word.

 

What - even if that word is 'UNFAIR' - I'm surprised at you HT. :shock:

[Bandit59 1,151]

Sending an early note Dear Santa can we have an early Christmas present of a main sponsor PLEEEEEEEZ