stratton 1,491 Posted March 16, 2013 If we had a 13 heat formula again, we wouldn't be hearing so much of there being far more top riders around back then.. as the top riders would meet far less, and their averages would all rise as a result. Forget the averages the bottom line was there were far more quality riders to Share around.The late 60s and 70s some years there were between 14 and 18 teams in the BL and also the N.L was a great product.Now the quality and quantity is just not there not a critisism just the way the sport has gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deano 1,318 Posted March 16, 2013 Now the quality and quantity is just not there not a critisism just the way the sport has gone. I agree, it's never wanted to be the master of it's own destiny. It's always been a sheep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor 270 Posted March 16, 2013 What's wrong with 15 heats and a short second half? People want value for money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OGT 612 Posted March 16, 2013 15 competitive heats over 13 everytime for me. If clubs want to run junior matches as a 2nd half, like Brum and other clubs did in 2007-8, then great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted March 16, 2013 How much, for example, could a promotion save by cutting back two heats from 15 to 13? Could be a saving for paying customers on admission prices, especially when one of the heats potentially trimmed from the format contains the top riders. Bet it could save a couple of pounds off the average admission fee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deano 1,318 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) How much, for example, could a promotion save by cutting back two heats from 15 to 13? Could be a saving for paying customers on admission prices, especially when one of the heats potentially trimmed from the format contains the top riders. Bet it could save a couple of pounds off the average admission fee. There is a saving provided the riders will ride for the same point money. I don't claim to know how negotiations like this work. If I were a rider and knew my earnings were going to drop by perhaps one ride per meeting I'd want a percentage increase on my points money. The promotion though could rightly say, no to this. Edited March 16, 2013 by Deano Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted March 16, 2013 I've never thought that much about the cost,because i enjoy the sport.But wondered do other fans believe now is it value for money is it too expensive will people pick and choose meetings?Cant believe it will ever go back to 13 heats as numerous people believe at the moment 15 minutes of entertainment is not anough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted March 17, 2013 Forget the averages the bottom line was there were far more quality riders to Share around.The late 60s and 70s some years there were between 14 and 18 teams in the BL and also the N.L was a great product.Now the quality and quantity is just not there not a critisism just the way the sport has gone. Sidney, don't start this again. You were made to look a fool the last time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Sidney, don't start this again. You were made to look a fool the last time. That's debatable who was the fool. Your opinion of the 13 heat formula is blinded by the fact that, because the No 1 only met each other once, then their averages was therefore higher. But the 13 heat formula was different in so many other ways. As you say the No.1 only met the opposite No1 in the first heat, but he rode against the other heat leaders twice, which was just as difficult in them days. When teams has 3 class heat leaders they had the choice of race positions and team managers sometime rotated them depending on the opposition. I remember Mike Lee always rode at 5, purely so he would race against and usually beat the opposing No 1 twice. When we talk about class riders, back in the 70's all the world's top 50 riders rode in our league, now we have probably only 10. So your perception of that class now based purely on the race format is somewhat miss leading. The 13 and 15 heats formulas are different in so many ways. which is best, will always be debatable, but when it come to the amount of class riders we had, then the 70's era and the 13 heat format wins hands down.... Edited March 17, 2013 by GRW123 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
george.m 3,063 Posted March 17, 2013 I've never thought that much about the cost,because i enjoy the sport.But wondered do other fans believe now is it value for money is it too expensive will people pick and choose meetings? You mind find the "Dissertation Questionnaire - Results" thread of interest. 12) With the average admission prices at £16.75 (elite league), £14.81 (premier league), £10.93 (national league), do you see the Speedway you witness as being good value for money in comparison to your teams division and entrance fee? Yes234 (58.8%) No (please give more details)18 (4.5%) If no (Please Specify your reason):146 (36.7%) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted March 17, 2013 Sidney, don't start this again. You were made to look a fool the last time. The saying there are none so blind as those who will not see springs to mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 17, 2013 Hmm, have a look at the BL top twenty averages for the years 1972 to 1978 and seriously claim that the quality of riders was not better then than now? Sure a lot of you won't have seen many or possibly any of the riders who appear in those averages but these are complete legends of the sport... How many riders riding in last year's EL will go down in history in the same way..? The quality in that era was unquestionably higher than now. But every sport has a golden age and outside of that has to muddle through and Speedway still delivers a good product - but we DO need to more people through the gates... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kester 3,035 Posted March 17, 2013 Hmm, have a look at the BL top twenty averages for the years 1972 to 1978 and seriously claim that the quality of riders was not better then than now? Sure a lot of you won't have seen many or possibly any of the riders who appear in those averages but these are complete legends of the sport... How many riders riding in last year's EL will go down in history in the same way..? The quality in that era was unquestionably higher than now. But every sport has a golden age and outside of that has to muddle through and Speedway still delivers a good product - but we DO need to more people through the gates... Oh no, not again. The riders may have been better (subjective), but please don't use averages to back this up as it's been shown to be a nonsense before. Sidney should remember as we had about 30 pages of people demonstrating why he was wrong before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 17, 2013 I'm not talking about the size of their averages I'm talking about the quality of the riders.. You can't seriously believe that the top 20 today in any way matches the top 20 of the mid-70s..?!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
New Science 1,059 Posted March 17, 2013 How much, for example, could a promotion save by cutting back two heats from 15 to 13? Could be a saving for paying customers on admission prices, especially when one of the heats potentially trimmed from the format contains the top riders. Bet it could save a couple of pounds off the average admission fee. Why is every one hell bent on shrinking speedway,already we have ditched a full set of B fixtures in the Elite league,ditched the Craven Shield and now finally ditched the Knock out cup,now people are advocating loosing 2 heats in a regular meeting,soon there will be nothing left of the sport. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
