Nothing Changes

[orion 7,615]

Belle Vue and Eastbourne said they would go under if they had to build to a 45 point limit so if that measure was passed they would have to leave the league. You call those clubs mug promoters but they know better than you how their income stacks up against their outgoings. You have only got to look at the crowds Eastbourne and BV were getting at that time to see they would have difficulty building with quality riders to 45 points. They struggled enough at 42.

 

Fair enough your opinion that its only those who sided against Cov and Peterborough are completely to blame, as you put it for the continued deterioration in the sport and the League but my view is that the SCB bear a massive responsibility as well. we will have to agree to differ on the SCB's culpability in all this.

And ? they were willing to let Boro and Cov go under ...Them not getting there way is the same as Eastie and Belle Vue, both not willing to take part in the league if certain rules were in place

[E I Addio 15,845]

And ? they were willing to let Boro and Cov go under ...Them not getting there way is the same as Eastie and Belle Vue, both not willing to take part in the league if certain rules were in place

 

As said before we can argue for ever and a day and it won't change opinions now. Boro and Cov at that stage had financial support from their owners, BV and Eastie were (and still relatively are) at the budget end of the market. Nobody forced Cov or Boro to buy/sign riders before the rules were finalised at the AGM, but that's water under the Bridge now. The sport didn't get into its present state simply because of 2010. The point of the thread is that we have exactly the same situation today that was being complained of by the promoters in May 2009.

 

If you and others are of the opinion that its all down to what happened in the winter of discontent, fair enough, but personally I think the sports problems are much wider and deeper than that, and that the buck stops with the SCB. The SCB didn't want to rock the boat over the Poole cheating claims in 2009 and don't want to rock the boat in 2013, once again in matters that seem to involve Poole. The big question is why is the SCB, the sports ruling body, so secretive and so inept.

 

 

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

That is the point. We don't know what they have done because we are not old. We were told via Speedway Star that the Poole -v- Lakeside cancellation was going to be discussed by the SCB on 10th July and since then we have been told nothing. We have not even been told if that actually discussed it as planned or adjourned to another date. Then we have the Kings Lynn -v Peterborough appeal seeping out on the day of the Bellevue-v- Poole meeting and people are bound to think the worst. The whole thing gives the impression of being a big stitch-up and conspiracy. I am not saying it is a stitch-up but that's how it looks from a distance. The SCB could kill all this speculation by a few press releases on their website keeping the fans informed, and it is that lack of information, more than anything else that is sending the sport downhill.

 

I actually have a lot of time for Cook and Douglas but my point was what have they done since May 2009 ? Sod all by the looks of things. Its all very well making an annoucement of that nature but if you don't follow it up its both worthless and meaningless.

 

I think you are absolutely right in that the decisions that come out of the SCB are grist to the mill of the conspiracy theorists because they only ever provide rulings, not explanations for those rulings. You could argue that they never provide reasons simply because those rulings break the laws of the sport and are twisted to suit the needs of individual promotions.

 

I have always said that the creation of the rule book must be left to those who run the clubs, ie the BSPA. However, rulings on disputes between clubs must be made by an independent adjudicator with no financial interest whatsoever, and the SCB are anything but.

[wealdstone 3,454]

I think most would agree that walking out was the wrong call. On the other hand it is generally acknowledged that RF was told to F Off by Ronnie Russell.. One of the problems for those used to observing the norms of general business practice is they fail to grasp such practices do not exist within BSPA.

 

Spivs and Wide Boys

[orion 7,615]

As said before we can argue for ever and a day and it won't change opinions now. Boro and Cov at that stage had financial support from their owners, BV and Eastie were (and still relatively are) at the budget end of the market. Nobody forced Cov or Boro to buy/sign riders before the rules were finalised at the AGM, but that's water under the Bridge now. The sport didn't get into its present state simply because of 2010. The point of the thread is that we have exactly the same situation today that was being complained of by the promoters in May 2009.

 

If you and others are of the opinion that its all down to what happened in the winter of discontent, fair enough, but personally I think the sports problems are much wider and deeper than that, and that the buck stops with the SCB. The SCB didn't want to rock the boat over the Poole cheating claims in 2009 and don't want to rock the boat in 2013, once again in matters that seem to involve Poole. The big question is why is the SCB, the sports ruling body, so secretive and so inept.

No one force Eastie Belle Vue to say they were going pull out of the league, the bottom line is they were the same as cov and Boro they were not willing to take part in a league under certain rules . Nothing has changed since 2009 but after writeing that piece it makes Douglas and co even worst than the others .

[BWitcher 12,453]

As said before we can argue for ever and a day and it won't change opinions now.

 

You are wrong on this because there are an awful lot of people whose opinions have changed given the subsequent events.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

You are wrong on this because there are an awful lot of people whose opinions have changed given the subsequent events.

 

I have been told that Rick Frost changed his opinion. He apparently deeply regrets that he sided with Coventry.

 

I didn't have a problem with what Coventry were saying but I most certainly did with the way they went about it. In fact, if they had handled it better we may now have the changes that they proposed.

[The White Knight 9,039]

That is the point. We don't know what they have done because we are not old. We were told via Speedway Star that the Poole -v- Lakeside cancellation was going to be discussed by the SCB on 10th July and since then we have been told nothing. We have not even been told if that actually discussed it as planned or adjourned to another date. Then we have the Kings Lynn -v Peterborough appeal seeping out on the day of the Bellevue-v- Poole meeting and people are bound to think the worst. The whole thing gives the impression of being a big stitch-up and conspiracy. I am not saying it is a stitch-up but that's how it looks from a distance. The SCB could kill all this speculation by a few press releases on their website keeping the fans informed, and it is that lack of information, more than anything else that is sending the sport downhill.

 

I AM!!!!! :mad:

[TonyE 822]

No one force Eastie Belle Vue to say they were going pull out of the league, the bottom line is they were the same as cov and Boro they were not willing to take part in a league under certain rules . Nothing has changed since 2009 but after writeing that piece it makes Douglas and co even worst than the others .

 

Given the lack of transparency in speedway BSPA/SCB - it is impossible to know whether or not proposals were made, voted upon/rejected etc. All we get is the 'compromise' arrived at for the season ahead.

 

Those that run speedway suffer from a complete lack of faith in the people they most rely on to sustain their businesses - the fans. The fact there is never an explanation or reasoning given to decisions re rulings/appeals etc only fosters suspicion that there is indeed something to hide.

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

 

Given the lack of transparency in speedway BSPA/SCB - it is impossible to know whether or not proposals were made, voted upon/rejected etc. All we get is the 'compromise' arrived at for the season ahead.

 

Those that run speedway suffer from a complete lack of faith in the people they most rely on to sustain their businesses - the fans. The fact there is never an explanation or reasoning given to decisions re rulings/appeals etc only fosters suspicion that there is indeed something to hide.

 

Spot on.That's the point I was trying to make earlier and which Halifaxtiger has already touched on. Unless we get clear statements from The SCB given a few facts relevant to their decisions there will always be a mixture of fact, fiction, gossip and speculation being discussed and that leads top disharmony in the sport especially amongst the paying public and that ot not a good thing.

 

 

No one force Eastie Belle Vue to say they were going pull out of the league, the bottom line is they were the same as cov and Boro they were not willing to take part in a league under certain rules . Nothing has changed since 2009 but after writeing that piece it makes Douglas and co even worst than the others .

 

According to them, money forced them. They said they couldn't sustain the costs likely to be incurred under the proposed higher points limit on the crowds they were getting in.

 

 

[BWitcher 12,453]

 

 

 

According to them, money forced them. They said they couldn't sustain the costs likely to be incurred under the proposed higher points limit on the crowds they were getting in.

 

And now due to the further weakening of the league and shambolic way it has been run since then nobody else can afford it on the crowds they are getting in either.... as predicted at the time by many of us.

[The White Knight 9,039]

And now due to the further weakening of the league and shambolic way it has been run since then nobody else can afford it on the crowds they are getting in either.... as predicted at the time by many of us.

 

Well said BWitcher - at least we agree on something. :)

[E I Addio 15,845]

 

 

And now due to the further weakening of the league and shambolic way it has been run since then nobody else can afford it on the crowds they are getting in either.... as predicted at the time by many of us.

It was being run in a shambolic way before that. The point that Stuart Douglas was making in his Speedway Star interview just before the AGM was that the sport was being run on a poor business model and it is the business model that had to change, not cutting the number of meetings. He said, logically, in my view that if you halve the number of meetings you halve your losses but you still have a bad business model. Unforunately the majority of promoters, in their wisdom decided to save costs by cutting the number of meetings but to stick to the same old bad business model so they still have big losses.

 

I can't recite all the ins and outs of a three page SS interview plus various programme notes but logically its no good cutting costs if you still have a format that is losing big money thus we still have clubs like Swindon Brum and Belle Vue struggling to pay the bills and Peterborough only surviving on the generosity of decent owner. Whether of not the winters changes will bring about a better business model remains to be seen but I'm not holding my breath.

[BWitcher 12,453]

I don't disagree with anything you say in that post E I.

 

It was run in a shambolic way before, and since.

 

However that episode served to really drive home this fact more and more to many fans who have since either given up or only attend sporadically now.

 

My lack of sympathy with Douglas/Lakeside lies around them simply rolling over and accepting the Poole situation earlier. Once it became obvious that the SCB were going to take no action against Poole, Lakeside should have made it publically clear that it wasn't on. As it stands, the publics perception is that Lakeside were in agreement. Their statement after the postponement does not go far enough. They should have kicked up an almighty stink about it.

 

Yes, you tell us that is not the way they operate.. but it is the ONLY way to operate in the current setup. The sport will not get cleaned up until promoters take a stand over the dodgy practices.

[bigcatdiary 3,165]

I don't disagree with anything you say in that post E I.

 

It was run in a shambolic way before, and since.

 

However that episode served to really drive home this fact more and more to many fans who have since either given up or only attend sporadically now.

 

My lack of sympathy with Douglas/Lakeside lies around them simply rolling over and accepting the Poole situation earlier. Once it became obvious that the SCB were going to take no action against Poole, Lakeside should have made it publically clear that it wasn't on. As it stands, the publics perception is that Lakeside were in agreement. Their statement after the postponement does not go far enough. They should have kicked up an almighty stink about it.

 

Yes, you tell us that is not the way they operate.. but it is the ONLY way to operate in the current setup. The sport will not get cleaned up until promoters take a stand over the dodgy practices.

 

I can only agree with the above statement, the whole thing stinks of a rule for one and a rule for the other.

 

Belle Vue postponed and got clobbered, Poole postponed and got away scot free, Lakeside didn't come out of it with much credit either over the shambolic press releases that followed.