Scunthorpe Stags Vs Kent Kings (nl) - Sunday, March 30th

[bullet 72]

Has there been any update to any injuries that the riders picked up yesterday?

Reece Downes has a double fracture of his wrist. Aaron Mogridge has a broken finger and tyler govier has reinjured his wrist/shoulder from a previous crash and was due to get it checked out today (info from Scunthorpe website/riders)

 

I will remember this---give it a week or some and you will eat your words --Trust me

From what I gather he can ride a bike and looks very fast but has little experience racing alongside others so was going to ride some MDL/Amateur meetings to get experience before coming in.

 

The stags could probably strengthen tomorrow with a couple of heat leaders but it destroys the point of them and just increases the cost massively. The first few meetings will be the hardest with the jump into racing alongside some riders who have been league racing for years but should quickly pick it up. Yesterday the main area the stags lost out on was the first 30 yards after that they were not far off the pace of much more experienced men

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

I have always regarded your comments as being of great value and continue to do so. Would be interested to hear how speedway get around the problem of massive differences in standard of riders in the same league which we have at present in the this league. Not sure that customers of Mildenhall and Cradley will be satisfied by hammering teams on their our patch when the weaker teams come to town and processional races are the norm. Love the comment about Steve Worrall as a developing rider on the fact that he is younger than Arron. That did make me giggle a bit. Steve is a class act at this level and developing for sure regardless of his age compared to others. Anyway back to my question. How do we level the differences in standard of riders or is everyone happy that the way the league is set-up and that it gives good racing and value for money?

 

Dale Allitt once told me that we -meaning double up clubs - want it here, they -meaning stand alone clubs - want it there. There must be something in the middle. He's right.

 

What that middle is another matter, but its everyone's interests to work out what it is and it needs everyone to display the sort of willingness to compromise that Dale did.

 

 

HT, I don't see this. How does a healthy win for the home side affect their attendances? Cradley clobber the opposition every week and yet have the best attendances in the league.

 

All the best

Rob

 

For a Cradley fan, there's a lot of credibility and pleasure in humping Mildenhall (and vice versa) There's absolutely no credibility in humping this Scunny side, and probably very little pleasure.

 

While the hard core will attend week in, week out, there's no question that the more attractive opposition pull in more spectators and that the weaker ones attract less. A team that don't stand any chance of even providing a modicum of entertainment or competition could disastrously effect gates.

 

 

to be honest that is of no concern to us,if they want to pay riders 30 or 40 a point to ride around then thats up to them,just the same as its up to Scunny who they put in

 

If the Stags had the likes of Morely,Lambert and Compton in the ranks there would be simply no point at all in running this project

 

For this project to work,Scunny/Poole will need to be totally selfish--other wise there is simply no point

 

Some may say they ill soon get cheesed of with getting hammered---rubbish,they know why they are there,ride ride ride enjoy and improve---,take Liam Sanderson for example,first win,first crash,ripped his new Kevlars but i bet he went to school this morning with a bigger smile than he had yesterday morning

 

Its not about what they pay the riders, its about paying punters. Crap opposition will put people off.

 

Selfishness is one reason why British Speedway is on its knees. We need more co-operation and compromise, not less.

 

 

I will remember this---give it a week or some and you will eat your words --Trust me

 

I remember seeing a 15 year old go straight through the Scunny safety fence in his first appearance at the track - if memory serves me correctly, he broke his collar bone in the process.

 

Last year, he became world champion.

 

Some will make it and some won't, but never write someone off before giving them an opportunity.

The points limit should be lower, the stand alone sides have to fit the agenda of the league, the league doesn't have to meet their agenda. As I've said before and no doubt will say again, if you give Cradley, Kent, Mildenhall etc a lower points limit then they will still be able to build winning sides but it will bring them into line with the likes of Scunthorpe, Buxton etc in trying to develop riders.

 

Having lots of experienced riders floating round the NL helps nobody, one or two is good to help these youngsters develop yes, however the aim should be to push our young riders forward to PL standard, not let them stagnate.

 

Well done to the Kings on the win, well done to the Stags on their ethos of team building. Hope all injured riders are soon back on their bikes.

 

And which riders in the Mildenhall//Cradley teams aren't developing ?

 

The truth is that there are as many in their teams as there are in Scunny's. Its ridiculous to suggest that a developing rider is a first year rookie and nothing else.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Halifaxtiger

[cityrebel 2,960]

I remember a certain southern track reducing the admission price when scunny were the visitors in the 1970's.

[TMW 533]

 

 

From what I gather he can ride a bike and looks very fast but has little experience racing alongside others so was going to ride some MDL/Amateur meetings to get experience before coming in.

 

The stags could probably strengthen tomorrow with a couple of heat leaders but it destroys the point of them and just increases the cost massively. The first few meetings will be the hardest with the jump into racing alongside some riders who have been league racing for years but should quickly pick it up. Yesterday the main area the stags lost out on was the first 30 yards after that they were not far off the pace of much more experienced men

I would argue that point. He is probably a far more profficent racer than any of those who were on track yesterday from his moto x. Maybe he feels himself he needs more time in the training league as a more mature rider

[Baldy 69]

 

Dale Allitt once told me that we -meaning double up clubs - want it here, they -meaning stand alone clubs - want it there. There must be something in the middle. He's right.

 

What that middle is another matter, but its everyone's interests to work out what it is and it needs everyone to display the sort of willingness to compromise that Dale did.

 

 

For a Cradley fan, there's a lot of credibility and pleasure in humping Mildenhall (and vice versa) There's absolutely no credibility in humping this Scunny side, and probably very little pleasure.

 

While the hard core will attend week in, week out, there's no question that the more attractive opposition pull in more spectators and that the weaker ones attract less. A team that don't stand any chance of even providing a modicum of entertainment or competition could disastrously effect gates.

 

 

 

Its not about what they pay the riders, its about paying punters. Crap opposition will put people off.

 

Selfishness is one reason why British Speedway is on its knees. We need more co-operation and compromise, not less.

 

 

I remember seeing a 15 year old go straight through the Scunny safety fence in his first appearance at the track - if memory serves me correctly, he broke his collar bone in the process.

 

Last year, he became world champion.

 

Some will make it and some won't, but never write someone off before giving them an opportunity.

 

And which riders in the Mildenhall//Cradley teams aren't developing ?

 

The truth is that there are as many in their teams as there are in Scunny's. Its ridiculous to suggest that a developing rider is a first year rookie and nothing else.

A lot of sense spoken in all your reply's there Halifax.

[vog 200]

Let's face it, a couple of seasons ago I took great pleasure in us putting 60 past Dudley, home and away. I still smile about it to this day. As a team, I would take no pride in beating Scunthorpe this season. What they are doing is admirable, but there has to be a limit. They are 16 points below the limit. That is absolutely ridiculous. By all means, bring riders through, that is a part of what the league is all about, but how is being humped at home going to help their confidence? Surely, by trying to get a couple of experienced heat leaders in, they would at least have someone to judge their own progress against, who could help in the pits and who could help them on track. I'm not talking top end riders, but at least riders who have experience and are capable of winning races. While I don't have a list to hand, I wonder if riders such as Gary Irving, James Wright, Rob Branford and the like were even approached? As a hypothetical, a team that lined up as follows would be better moving forward

 

1) James Wright

2) Arron Mogridge

3) Gary Irving

4) Steve Jones

5) Rob Branford

6) Reece Downes

7) Liam Sanderson

8) Aaron Mogridge

 

You still have the riders being able to progress, but you also have a team capable of holding its own, and bringing crowds in on its own. I would be more tempted to travel to watch a team with that makes up, and you still have 4 riders who you would say are progressing!

 

I worry that this team from Scunthorpe will hurt riders confidence, rather than building them up.

[Fozzie4388 679]

Aaron Modridge at 2 and 8? or those 2 different guys

[bullet 72]

 

Its not about what they pay the riders, its about paying punters. Crap opposition will put people off.

 

Selfishness is one reason why British Speedway is on its knees. We need more co-operation and compromise, not less.

 

 

 

And which riders in the Mildenhall//Cradley teams aren't developing ?

 

The truth is that there are as many in their teams as there are in Scunny's. Its ridiculous to suggest that a developing rider is a first year rookie and nothing else.

 

 

2 comments on this

 

It does matter what you pay the riders. If this was the case buxtons lack of riders is solved just pay £40 a point like other teams to fill it in and the watch the crowds flock to watch them and stop the team losing money!

 

It is about comprimise but maybe this will make the rules looked at again. There is a price per point limit that is blatently ignored rising the costs up on riders who should be looking to be Full time PL. this was part of why scunny pulled out before.

Maybe there should be a slight lowering of the points limit and to look at a "realistic" price per point limit ( i can see the riders point as well wanting the money for equipment costs but thats a whole different discussion!!)

This would then give the bigger teams a choice. Keep the high average rider but then have to bring in more new inexperience riders or ditch the high averages who should be in the PL and have a more even balaced team. This needs to happen at the next level as well though as too much doubling up higher up meaning there still isnt enough places for some to step up to the PL full time

 

 

On the second point why have "Development Dudley" had to rearrange thier match with Scunny! Due to having too many riders unavailable due to riding other leagues.

They have 5 riders doubling/tripling up (and one of the others rode EL last week)

Next highest is Coventry with i think 4 and mildenhall 3

Maybe this should be limited as well as this shows that they are not really developing they are just paying for the riders who have developed enough already to be good enough for higher level (either one of the top 20NL riders or already making the step upto the premier league).

I think the term developing here is more refered to taking a rider from rookie through which nathan greaves is one example where they have

 

Maybe that should be changed as well the top twenty riders who are in the draft have to be shared out as well.

 

If one thing comes out of this hopefully it will make people higher up discuss the issue as you have one group of clubs driving others to struggle financially and the other end those working to financial constraints "making winning boring!"

 

(time to duck for cover)

Edited March 31, 2014 by The Scunthorpe bullet

[Hunty 189]

When i saw the scoreline I can honestly say I said to myself I might give that match a miss. However I pay my money to watch NL speedway and follow a National League team so I should give these guys a chance and actually support them by going to watch them. Its a problem that the NL will always have, stand alone teams and development squads together only mean a differnce in qaulity in some teams but if this EL draft works then it will create more opertunites for the young kids and a bright future for British Speedway

[Bagpuss 10,784]

As others have said, there must be some way of compromising and equalling team strengths up a little. Some kind of rider control so that each team has a couple of the best riders and at least three 3 pointers....Mildenhall and Dudley will still end up with the strongest sides but at least team strengths will be a bit more uniform. If Sunny still wanted to go with five rookies they could but at least they would have two top men who could compete anywhere with any other heat leader. As it stands we have a situation where the two top clubs have three heat leaders stronger than many number ones and with the best second strings and reserves too that can't be good for the NL. Equally Buxton & Scunny getting marmalised everywhere they go is no good either, sons middle ground needs to be found.

[montie 1,273]

Let's face it, a couple of seasons ago I took great pleasure in us putting 60 past Dudley, home and away. I still smile about it to this day. As a team, I would take no pride in beating Scunthorpe this season. What they are doing is admirable, but there has to be a limit. They are 16 points below the limit. That is absolutely ridiculous. By all means, bring riders through, that is a part of what the league is all about, but how is being humped at home going to help their confidence? Surely, by trying to get a couple of experienced heat leaders in, they would at least have someone to judge their own progress against, who could help in the pits and who could help them on track. I'm not talking top end riders, but at least riders who have experience and are capable of winning races. While I don't have a list to hand, I wonder if riders such as Gary Irving, James Wright, Rob Branford and the like were even approached? As a hypothetical, a team that lined up as follows would be better moving forward

 

1) James Wright

2) Arron Mogridge

3) Gary Irving

4) Steve Jones

5) Rob Branford

6) Reece Downes

7) Liam Sanderson

8) Aaron Mogridge

 

You still have the riders being able to progress, but you also have a team capable of holding its own, and bringing crowds in on its own. I would be more tempted to travel to watch a team with that makes up, and you still have 4 riders who you would say are progressing!

 

I worry that this team from Scunthorpe will hurt riders confidence, rather than building them up.

 

And how will a team like that be paid for???

 

You think RG and MF would chuck 10k at a project with 3 riders who have no value to them--NOT A CHANCE

 

its all well and good saying put stronger riders in---but who,where are they???

 

whats Stoke going to do when Wilson heads back in the PL ?? no one to replace him as far as i can see

[TMW 533]

As others have said, there must be some way of compromising and equalling team strengths up a little. Some kind of rider control so that each team has a couple of the best riders and at least three 3 pointers....Mildenhall and Dudley will still end up with the strongest sides but at least team strengths will be a bit more uniform. If Sunny still wanted to go with five rookies they could but at least they would have two top men who could compete anywhere with any other heat leader. As it stands we have a situation where the two top clubs have three heat leaders stronger than many number ones and with the best second strings and reserves too that can't be good for the NL. Equally Buxton & Scunny getting marmalised everywhere they go is no good either, sons middle ground needs to be found.

Make Dudley and Mildenhall join the PL? That's the only way although, Mildenhall's long term future is in doubt anyway.

 

Liam Sanderson looks a good trier and although I don't like to compare, as riders are individual with individual styles but from the photo's from Sunday he looks like another Jason Garrity. It will be interesting progresses where he will end up next season. There is a lot of talk of Poole and Ford but don't forget other EL clubs are looking for assets if this draft idea continues. I hope they all stay with Scunthorpe but if there is a better deal on the table who can blame him. Especially if he is 16 in the winter if he is 16 before the end of the season then maybe Scunny could pin him down to a signature. Anybody would go for a job with better pay show me someone who wouldn't even having started out with the best of intentions.

Edited April 1, 2014 by TMW

[June 203]

There is a way to settle the old problem of Stand alone teams and developement teams and that is to be ruthless, BSPA make the win at all cost teams either go PL or reduce the team averages to something like 33/34 points end of! The bottom tier has to be where rookies start their climb up to EL. Scunny and some others were doing a decent job of developing riders but judging by the amount of racers in the AM meetings we need a quicker route for the youngsters to take. Ask ourselves " are some of these riders giving up after a time of getting nowhere fast?" Look at Australia...kids in their early teens dozens of them, you can always read of new named riders breaking through. At this age the kids are having fun wanting to go faster and wanting to be part of a team. As a supporter its great to see these rookies progress like Tia, not all do it though, quite a lot will hang about being average and not reach the top.The system should change for the youngsters to at least get a chance!

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

 

 

2 comments on this

 

It does matter what you pay the riders. If this was the case buxtons lack of riders is solved just pay £40 a point like other teams to fill it in and the watch the crowds flock to watch them and stop the team losing money!

 

It is about comprimise but maybe this will make the rules looked at again. There is a price per point limit that is blatently ignored rising the costs up on riders who should be looking to be Full time PL. this was part of why scunny pulled out before.

Maybe there should be a slight lowering of the points limit and to look at a "realistic" price per point limit ( i can see the riders point as well wanting the money for equipment costs but thats a whole different discussion!!)

This would then give the bigger teams a choice. Keep the high average rider but then have to bring in more new inexperience riders or ditch the high averages who should be in the PL and have a more even balaced team. This needs to happen at the next level as well though as too much doubling up higher up meaning there still isnt enough places for some to step up to the PL full time

 

 

On the second point why have "Development Dudley" had to rearrange thier match with Scunny! Due to having too many riders unavailable due to riding other leagues.

They have 5 riders doubling/tripling up (and one of the others rode EL last week)

Next highest is Coventry with i think 4 and mildenhall 3

Maybe this should be limited as well as this shows that they are not really developing they are just paying for the riders who have developed enough already to be good enough for higher level (either one of the top 20NL riders or already making the step upto the premier league).

I think the term developing here is more refered to taking a rider from rookie through which nathan greaves is one example where they have

 

Maybe that should be changed as well the top twenty riders who are in the draft have to be shared out as well.

 

If one thing comes out of this hopefully it will make people higher up discuss the issue as you have one group of clubs driving others to struggle financially and the other end those working to financial constraints "making winning boring!"

 

(time to duck for cover)

 

Certainly no need to duck at all. I might not agree totally but what you are saying is pretty fair.

 

It would be true to say that if a team is paying over the NL standard rate the visit by and to Scunny will cost a lot more than normal. That still doesn't affect the fact that even if you were paying £10/10p the Stags turning up could result in an alarming drop in your gate.

 

A lower points limit might be considered (although I have always thought 40-42 was OK) but anything less than 38 and I'd say people might reconsider attending. Payment rates just cannot be enforced and, to a degree, I don't see why they should. Tell Rob Godfrey that the wages he pays his PL team can only be the equivalent of that of those whose budget is the smallest and he'd be most unimpressed. I don't see the difference.

 

What constitutes a developing rider is a moot point. I'd say Joe Jacobs is, even though he is now on his 6th NL season, and that's because of his age and the fact that he has only had one year in the PL. Simon Lambert is another matter.

 

The EL draft has created problems like never before for the NL. In the past, if you had three riders riding at PL level you were unlucky, now Mildenhall and Dudley have two riders riding for three clubs. The draft is a good idea (although it should have been at PL level to my mind) but the knock on problems are significant.

[StevePark 2,783]

There is a way to settle the old problem of Stand alone teams and developement teams and that is to be ruthless, BSPA make the win at all cost teams either go PL or reduce the team averages to something like 33/34 points end of! The bottom tier has to be where rookies start their climb up to EL. Scunny and some others were doing a decent job of developing riders but judging by the amount of racers in the AM meetings we need a quicker route for the youngsters to take. Ask ourselves " are some of these riders giving up after a time of getting nowhere fast?" Look at Australia...kids in their early teens dozens of them, you can always read of new named riders breaking through. At this age the kids are having fun wanting to go faster and wanting to be part of a team. As a supporter its great to see these rookies progress like Tia, not all do it though, quite a lot will hang about being average and not reach the top.The system should change for the youngsters to at least get a chance!

 

By the same token, should there not be a 'minimum' points limit?

 

Scunthorpe's team total is 23.33, compared to, say, Devon, who's team total is 37.68. That's one heck of a difference.

 

Having said that, I applaud Scunthorpe in what they are trying to do. The CL/NL has always had the problem of teams having a different agenda to others and, no doubt, that will continue.