proud panther 1,505 Posted April 27, 2014 Stags have made the National League a joke full stop. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Allitt Racing 26 Posted April 27, 2014 Lol what about Rose one year in NL. Bailey no seasons. Marc Owen limited with injury. The kings Lynn boys all younger than the stags number 1. In fact the oldest is 27. If that is to old then we are in trouble. As for ambition. Both Darren and Kyle are on the elite list so clearly they have it. James will be when he gets fully fit. So when you know all that maybe you will feel differently ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted April 27, 2014 Stags have made the National League a joke full stop. On a serious note I think that is the intention. No need to flaunt rules but taking every opportunity to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 27, 2014 Lol what about Rose one year in NL. Bailey no seasons. Marc Owen limited with injury. The kings Lynn boys all younger than the stags number 1. In fact the oldest is 27. If that is to old then we are in trouble. As for ambition. Both Darren and Kyle are on the elite list so clearly they have it. James will be when he gets fully fit. So when you know all that maybe you will feel differently ? Good old statistics we can use them for anything!!! (not arguing against as i agree with Rose, Owen and Bailey as newcomers still) Only one statistic i would use and is the main difference between the teams which affected the score. "number of league meetings per team" KL will be in several hundred if not more where as scunny will be probably only just over 100 with steve jones making up most of them And thats what told in the one area the stags are losing out on at the moment. "Gating" in particular on a track that having already had one meeting on becomes alot more FTG than a PL meeting Observing the starts every time the KL riders were sharper away (sometimes too sharp but get away with it as all teams seem to in NL meetings this season) even the less experiences riders in the KL team (except bailey who is just a very good young rider) have had a lot more expereince from the gate Once we see the stags start to get upto the speed of other riders out the traps then the scores will start coming as all have shown they are there with track speed. As to what work is being done to help them gate i dont know but is very hard to be done during a meeting, sometime i wonder if it is just down to setups or more importantly "newer Tyres!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markyb 323 Posted April 27, 2014 When Scunthorpe raced against coventry storm the other week I was so full of praise for the efforts put in by.the Scunthorpe riders - even though they got trounced and posted as such on the forum. Seeing today's score, unfortunately feel that they could be killing National League speedway. Now have to think twice about the level of speedway on offer when two national league teams meet ! At coventry they only charge 10 quid to get in and free for my 8 year old Daughter which is fantastic value for money (sometimes !) But the major factor is giving up 2 to 3 hours of my "social" time. Normally it is well worth it - but how the hell can I judge. Sorry Scunthorpe riders/management/fans (if any exist apart from family members and girl friends) - pull the plug now ! Await the normal rubbishe responses !!! Stags have made the National League a joke full stop. Too right they are and will kill the league if they continue !!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) The ethics and theory behind the Scunthorpe Stags project this year are fair enough but in reality the team is made up of an old hand at no1 who isn't that experienced and is a 2nd string at best, 2-3 at the very most young inexperienced riders with potential and the rest journeyman, development League/amateur riders who no one else wanted with virtually no hope of ever getting better! I can see some standalone NL clubs reducing admission prices unless the Stags beef up their line up, just like Bob Dugard did in the late 70's at Eastbourne when ironically the visitors were Scunthorpe in the 1970's National League! As for King's Lynn, I'd agree the likes of messrs Mallett, Cockle, Hughes and Campos are journeyman National League guys who aren't going to get better but messrs Rose, Bailey and Owen will likely get better and like a previous poster says quality is better than quantity! I'd rather watch the likes of Cockle Mallett, Hughes and Campos than what I would no hopers trailing round at the back! Maybe if they were so interested in giving rides to inexperienced development riders Scunny would of been better of running two/three development teams in the Midland Development League calling them Scunny Stags, Saints and even maybe Hull Vikings? Edited April 27, 2014 by 25yearfan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 27, 2014 The ethics and theory behind the Scunthorpe Stags project this year are fair enough but in reality the team is made up of an old hand at no1 who isn't that experienced and is a 2nd string at best, 2-3 at the very most young inexperienced riders with potential and the rest journeyman, development League/amateur riders who no one else wanted with virtually no hope of ever getting better! Humour me.... List the stags team and which are which!!! Maybe if they were so interested in giving rides to inexperienced development riders Scunny would of been better of running two/three development teams in the Midland Development League calling them Scunny Stags, Saints and even maybe Hull Vikings? They already have!!! and as i have said before where do riders go once they are top scoring in the MDL????????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMW 533 Posted April 27, 2014 The ethics and theory behind the Scunthorpe Stags project this year are fair enough but in reality the team is made up of an old hand at no1 who isn't that experienced and is a 2nd string at best, 2-3 at the very most young inexperienced riders with potential and the rest journeyman, development League/amateur riders who no one else wanted with virtually no hope of ever getting better! ] I think that is unfair. All 2-7 desrve to be called development riders as they all are relatively inexperienced 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neil H 63 Posted April 27, 2014 <snip> I'd rather watch the likes of Cockle Mallett, Hughes and Campos than what I would no hopers trailing round at the back! I'd get no enjoyment out of seeing 'seasoned' riders beating newcomers but thats what we have in the NL. We can't have a league with all riders of the same ability and experience. Maybe KL could give 2 of these up to Scunny & Buxton to make things more even There are fewer top riders available in the NL this year and even fewer willing to ride for £10 a point than the two 'weak' teams can pay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Smith 5,666 Posted April 27, 2014 This thread has turned a little nasty. Scunthorpe & King's Lynn can do as they see fit. The NL should be predominantly a development league and is treated as such by most teams who are running 2-3 league teams. There is a place in this league for all riders of all abilities of all ages. It's about getting the mix right All the Scunny rider's deserve a place but maybe not all together in the same team. Cockle, Mallett and Campos all deserve the right to race NL. There's still time for them to make good PL rider's or just to race for fun in the NL. There are 4 stages of British League racing and whichever rider fit whichever level good luck to them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25yearfan 476 Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) Humour me.... List the stags team and which are which!!! They already have!!! and as i have said before where do riders go once they are top scoring in the MDL????????? I know what riders I have put into the categories I stated but that would be unfair to name which riders go into each category cause I respect anyone that has a go but people watching Scunny could probably work it out! Like I said I respect Scunny for trying to be totally ethical about bringing on young Brits but the reality is half the Stags team are riders who wouldn't get in any other team apart from maybe the bottom end at Buxton and will struggle to get any better! If my local NL team, Mildenhall put out a team like Scunny Stags have they would lose over half their crowd and struggle to be viable. That's the perennial problem with Division 3 racing in this Country in that you will always have teams with different outlooks. Scunthorpe have taken their outlook to the extreme which in fairness Rob Godfrey said before the season started was exactly the idea behind the project! Yes King's Lynn have got a number of journeymen who'll go no further but like Mildenhall they have to try a put together a competitive team or otherwise they'd lose a packet running NL meetings at King's Lynn. I've been told Buster Chapman wasn't happy with the Stags line up being so weak! Another way to eleviate this problem would be to restructure the League set up in Britain with a bigger top flight featuring the stronger PL teams, a middle tier weaker than the present PL but with more Brits, EG the experienced old hands in the NL moving up along with the strong standalone clubs like Mildenhall, Kent, Cradley, Stoke and a more development based 3rd Division which would suit the Scunthorpe Stags ethic much better! Edited April 27, 2014 by 25yearfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullet 72 Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) I know what riders I have put into the categories I stated but that would be unfair to name which riders go into each category cause I respect anyone that has a go but people watching Scunny could probably work it out! Like I said I respect Scunny for trying to be totally ethical about bringing on young Brits but the reality is half the Stags team are riders who wouldn't get in any other team apart from maybe the bottom end at Buxton and will struggle to get any better! Which is exactly why i asked you to name them Steve jones has the most experience and is there to help the youngsters The second most expereinced rider in the "official Stags Team" is Dano verge!! after that the rest of the official team have a total of around 2 apperances!! (assuming that Tyler is now at umber 8 and sam is in the team that number would go up if tylers part year at buxton is included) so where the journeymen/MDL lifers are i have no idea Just to recap The "official stags team" Steve jones (Old hand to guide youngsters) Sam Chapman (first year having just signed and scores very well in MDL so next step up) Arron Mogridge (First year racing and out injured since first meeting!) Danno verge (second most experienced with a handfull of league apperances over last couple of years) Ryan MacDonald (first year and scored very well in NJL last year so next step up) Liam Sanderson (only been on a bike a year and still learning. has shown glimpses of talent but needs to build up experience ad confidence and will be riding MDL as well) Reece downes (actually has a league apperance and scored well. Injured in first meeting of season but hopefully back in a few weeks) Tyler Govier (had a season with buxton but struggled with a few injuries) They wouldnt get in any other teams as how many teams have been built with a need for 3pt riders mainly due to all the high riders from last year now gone with the points limit still high. What will happen next year when a lot of averages become much higher and there is need for 3-4pt riders. we will have a head start as ours will have the experience he other teams wil have to start bringing more through from thier MDL teams. If you completely ignore scuthorpes existance in this league what will you all say when large scores are racked up against Buxton and Possibly Plymouth that wont be our fault!! buxto hopefully will start with slightly higher scores with 3/4 riders already with league experience but as they have shown with thier struggle there is not enough riders available currently without 3pt`ers. What would have happened if the IOW were still running there would be even less!!!! Edited April 27, 2014 by The Scunthorpe bullet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mimmo 1,070 Posted April 28, 2014 First and foremost I must say that in a couple of previous postings I've made on the BSF, I've been very critical regarding the gentleman behind the microphone (in referee's box), saying things that maybe I shouldn't have done. These were caused by my frustration of not being able to hear what he was saying, when everything else was audible over the PA system. I have to say here and now, that yesterday, everything was spot on, but what really impressed me was the fact that the announcer, whose name I don't know, requested that I go up into the box to speak with him, to see if he'd been any clearer. He didn't have to do that, and the fact that he did, has earned my utmost respect and admiration. You're a true gentleman sir, and I thank you very much indeed. As for the debates going on about the meeting, I can see both sides of the story, so will comment no further other than to say that King's Lynn showed you enough respect by not letting off the gas, which would suggest that they honoured the Scunthorpe efforts. I can't understand why Sam Chapman is being shown in the 'ALSO RODE' section of the stats on page 5 of the programme rather than the 'GUESTS' section, as at no time has the rider been declared in the clubs septet. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) This thread has turned a little nasty. Scunthorpe & King's Lynn can do as they see fit. The NL should be predominantly a development league and is treated as such by most teams who are running 2-3 league teams. There is a place in this league for all riders of all abilities of all ages. It's about getting the mix right All the Scunny rider's deserve a place but maybe not all together in the same team. Cockle, Mallett and Campos all deserve the right to race NL. There's still time for them to make good PL rider's or just to race for fun in the NL. There are 4 stages of British League racing and whichever rider fit whichever level good luck to them Until yesterday, I'd have agreed with you (almost) completely. What has changed my mind is the funding of the clubs. In the EL & PL, the away team receives payment from the home team for each match based upon a standard amount. If a club pays over that, they meet it from their own gate receipts. In the NL, the clubs meet their own costs from home gate receipts alone. Lets say that Scunthorpe & King's Lynn pay standard NL pay rates of £10/10p. Yesterday would have cost Scunny about £300, King's Lynn around £800. The home meeting for the Stars will have cost the same. Given that Scunthorpe run double headers charging £2 or £3 more than normal they will be making money out of the arrangement; I doubt very much that the Stars can afford £1,600 in rider costs from one home meeting. As such, I could make a fair case that Scunthorpe's policy of fielding young riders is being paid for not by them but by every other club in the NL. For that reason, I'll be astonished if they (or anyone else) is allowed to do something similar next season unless funding arrangements change. First and foremost I must say that in a couple of previous postings I've made on the BSF, I've been very critical regarding the gentleman behind the microphone (in referee's box), saying things that maybe I shouldn't have done. These were caused by my frustration of not being able to hear what he was saying, when everything else was audible over the PA system. I have to say here and now, that yesterday, everything was spot on, but what really impressed me was the fact that the announcer, whose name I don't know, requested that I go up into the box to speak with him, to see if he'd been any clearer. He didn't have to do that, and the fact that he did, has earned my utmost respect and admiration. You're a true gentleman sir, and I thank you very much indeed. That's brilliant and it just shows how far a small bit of customer care can go. I can think of one or two promotions who could learn a lesson from that. Edited April 28, 2014 by Halifaxtiger 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ommer Mon 381 Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) If Halifaxtiger has it right (and I have no reason to doubt him) then Scunny would have made a handsome profit from the NL encounter yesterday. Charge everybody in a captive audience £2 extra - pay £10 a point (presumably) - score 20 points inc bonus - means you need a crowd of 100 to break even. They must have been quids in!! As a business model it rivals the Glazers' take over at Manchester United and reversing all the debt into the Club. Genius! Clearly pressed the 'post' button at the same time as HT but we have clearly arrived at the same conclusion. This can't be allowed next year! Edited April 28, 2014 by Ommer Mon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
