ch958 2,396 Posted November 26, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. yes you have a point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsoil 2,498 Posted November 26, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. This is basically the hole which speedway has dug itself into. The sport has failed to move with the times, in terms of promoting the sport, in terms of providing spectators with improved facilities, in terms of shooting itself in the foot on numerous occasions and with very little thought to the public. Spectators / customers / public in general these days demand so much more, because there are so many more alternatives. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted November 26, 2015 whilst this cant/wont happen in speedway, maybe if proper relegation/promotion was in this sport, then the WHOLE season would be "meaningful", which I think this thread shows. Teams wouldn't "see out" the season, and both ends would have something to race for, thus giving March to September a proper purpose. But with speedway, we have promotions choosing to stay put in lower leagues (for obvious reasons). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topsoil 2,498 Posted November 27, 2015 whilst this cant/wont happen in speedway, maybe if proper relegation/promotion was in this sport, then the WHOLE season would be "meaningful", which I think this thread shows. Teams wouldn't "see out" the season, and both ends would have something to race for, thus giving March to September a proper purpose. But with speedway, we have promotions choosing to stay put in lower leagues (for obvious reasons). Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,619 Posted November 27, 2015 Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Correct that is why the plays offs are even more important in Speedway . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted November 27, 2015 Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Promotion and regulation was tried back during the days of the 'Mervyn Stewkesbury Administration' and it lasted, if I recall, for two seasons. The first season Swindon, having finished bottom, refused to be relegated but did the following season. It was never very practical, in real terms, as obviously 'Star Riders' wouldn't accept dropping a league and team strengths had to be adjusted requiring some form of rider control and/or movement between the two leagues. I admired, at the time, the thought processes involved but it was never going to work to suit all parties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Humphrey Appleby 13,969 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Promotion and regulation was tried back during the days of the 'Mervyn Stewkesbury Administration' and it lasted, if I recall, for two seasons. The first season Swindon, having finished bottom, refused to be relegated but did the following season. It was never very practical, in real terms, as obviously 'Star Riders' wouldn't accept dropping a league and team strengths had to be adjusted requiring some form of rider control and/or movement between the two leagues. I admired, at the time, the thought processes involved but it was never going to work to suit all parties. Promotion and relegation is pointless unless there are more teams trying to get into the top level than there are places. It's generally bad for business planning anyway, but it works in football because there are plenty of teams to replace the fallen. In British speedway though, it's cloud cuckoo stuff. Edited November 27, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted November 27, 2015 Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orion 7,619 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how they keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . Edited November 27, 2015 by orion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... Correct so their existence is entirely logical.. If the play-offs generate more money, why would scrapping them be beneficial to the sport? Edited November 27, 2015 by BWitcher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... You seem to be understanding it now. The fans clamour to the play offs, the matches preceding them now have more meaning so they attract bigger crowds, these bigger crowds generate ? So now you acknowledge this why would anyone suggest doing away with them ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . Hey, not all of us !!!!!! Actually speedway, or any sport, shouldn't pander to the Luddite aspect. To be honest speedway, if it was properly presented should have no interest to a large chunk of its current audience but it should seek a whole new audience. Exactly like Barry Hearn did for the PDC. He wasn't interested in the few hundred pensioners sitting knitting in muted silence nursing a milk stout while watching what passed as darts 25 years ago. He knew the show he wanted to present would appall them, the point is at the expense of a few hundred coffin dodgers he attracted a whole new audience with a vibrant, noisy night out Edited November 27, 2015 by Oldace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted November 27, 2015 Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... They make more money because more people attend. Thus they are only a positive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 27, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. Well the advent of 'Play Offs', 'Double Points' et al has certainly been a startling success at NOT bringing people back to Speedway. Unless the 'Play Off' Gate money is shared out around the Track, which I don't believe it is, then they don't exactly benefit the whole Sport do they? Just those Clubs who are in said Play Offs. Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... I basically agree with this. It's the money - not the Sport that matters. ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how they keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . And yet you keep telling us that it is only the 'old fogies' who go to Speedway these days. You can't have it both ways. :nono: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted November 27, 2015 Well the advent of 'Play Offs', 'Double Points' et al has certainly been a startling success at NOT bringing people back to Speedway. Unless the 'Play Off' Gate money is shared out around the Track, which I don't believe it is, then they don't exactly benefit the whole Sport do they? Just those Clubs who are in said Play Offs. I basically agree with this. It's the money - not the Sport that matters. And yet you keep telling us that it is only the 'old fogies' who go to Speedway these days. You can't have it both ways. :nono: The only one wanting it 'both ways' is you... You keep telling us how the playoffs aren't successful, then you claim they are only there for the money.... I'm afraid you can't have both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted November 27, 2015 The only one wanting it 'both ways' is you... You keep telling us how the playoffs aren't successful, then you claim they are only there for the money.... I'm afraid you can't have both. I have never argued that the 'Play Offs' don't make money. I have never said that they aren't successful. As regards resurrecting Speedway from the Ashes though - they are singularly unsuccessful as is evidenced by ever decreasing Gates - apart from said 'Play Offs'. My argument has always been that they are not right or fair. I stick to that. If you look over all of my Posts regarding the 'Play Offs' I have consistently said that they are all about MONEY. So - as you can see - I don't want it both ways. So - you see BW - once again you are wrong. I don't expect you to admit it though. You never do!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
