AlanF 295 Posted December 4, 2015 BW....genuine question here. is this thread about club finances or what format the fans want? How would you measure that? A club's finances will surely be better if they give the fans what they want. The only real objective test of what the fans want is whether they are prepared to hand over their hard earned cash to attend. Therefore, it would appear that fans love the play offs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Not forcing you to do anything, I have been trying to educate you. You prefer to ignore reality and spout nonsense and make yourself look very foolish. Your decision, nothing I can do about that. If you want to engage in adult debate Sidney, try answering the questions you are posed.. not just ramble incoherently over and over. Answer me this simple question. Why have the National League decided to re-introduce playoffs? Educate right! i have more chance of walking on the moon than learning much from you.I would be very confident in debating with you on matters on Speedway from the 60s to the present day.I don't try to force my OPINION on someone and 99 per cent of people on here i respect there view.You are very sly you don't loose you rag or swear but you make sly and hurtful remarks but that is a massive WEAKNESS of yours always has been.Have you ever been in charge of a section a group of people? your man management skills are nearly zero going by your attitude.Ok you say and think i am a thicko i can live with that but like i said before on speedway matters i would feel confident debating with you all day long. Edited December 4, 2015 by sidney 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 4, 2015 How would you measure that? A club's finances will surely be better if they give the fans what they want. The only real objective test of what the fans want is whether they are prepared to hand over their hard earned cash to attend. Therefore, it would appear that fans love the play offs. well as a fan I can tell you 100% I would prefer straight league traditional championship. If I was promoter of Leicester, id choose play offs as its a chance for them to creep in fourth to make bit of money. if I was promoter of poole, id choose straight championship, as a successful side automatically draw crowds, and the night they wrap it up,would automatically get the large crowd you keep on about! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted December 4, 2015 Educate right! i have more chance of walking on the moon than learning much from you.I would be very confident in debating with you on matters on Speedway from the 60s to the present day.I don't try to force my OPINION on someone and 99 per cent of people on here i respect there view.You are very sly you don't loose you rag or swear but you make sly and hurtful remarks but that is a massive WEAKNEST of yours always has been.Have you ever been in charge of a section a group of people? your man management skills are nearly zero going by your attitude.Ok you say and think i am a thicko i can live with that but like i said before on speedway matters i would feel confident debating with you all day long. First of all sidney - your are most definitely not a "thicko". Your Speedway knowledge alone is enough to prove that to me. Secondly - this Thread seems to be more about us all jumping to BW's tune than the original debate. I agree with you that his terminology of "I have been trying to educate you" is arrogant - extremely so. Perhaps he needs a lesson in humility. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 4, 2015 let me educate you Sidney. agree with BW, he then believes hes right, and he can close this thread for the 4th time!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted December 4, 2015 let me educate you Sidney. agree with BW, he then believes hes right, and he can close this thread for the 4th time!! Excellent. :rofl: :rofl: 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted December 4, 2015 This is unbelievable No one denies you your right to dislike the play offs. People have asserted that mid season crowds would be better if it were not for play offs so for the umpteenth time Why would this be, why would a match in Aug between the 5th and 6th place teams be more appealing if neither team had anything to race for. We are simply asking for the thinking behind this but no one seems willing to answer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted December 4, 2015 let me educate you Sidney. agree with BW, he then believes hes right, and he can close this thread for the 4th time!!The thing is Colin does it matter who is right or wrong i know it does not matter to you there is some great people on here and we all can learn a fair bit lets carry on eh lets talk about ?? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,247 Posted December 4, 2015 When people make posts that deserve some respect then I agree. However we have three or four posters on here who quite simply cannot process information. They cannot see what is in front of their face. Their idea has been TRIED and FAILED. No supposition, no if's, but's or maybe's... their system has been scrapped as of 2nd December. They wanted hard and fast evidence, the National League has provided it. Yet none of them even acknowledge it and blindly ignore what is happening in the real world and continue to post the same thing over and over and over. Such posts deserve no respect, indeed such posts are essentially trolling and against forum rules. Throw in that one of them is a multiple account holder flagrantly flouting forum rules because he thinks he is clever and you get this mess. It has nothing to do with being a keyboard warrior, what is being said on here is tame compared to what would happen in any business environment if such actions were displayed. I am in control, as evidenced by real life events. Most recently backed up on the 2nd December when the National League having tried your system of the winners of the league being champions and staging a Gold Cup at the end of the season abandoned it because it was WORSE. So again, not me who is saying it.. but real life events. Another post that is for the children's section. You admit playoffs work financially but then claims fans won't go because they are unfair! You do realise that playoffs exist in many, many sports, none of which have any problems with perception or being unfair. Does Rugby Union have a problem with perception because they use playoffs? No they're enjoying record crowds. Does Rugby League have a problem? No. Do people stop going to football because the team in 6th placed in the Championship got promoted to the Premier League over the team in 3rd? No. Do any of the multitude of other sports that use playoffs have problems? No Quite simply. as is evidenced by REAL LIFE you're making things up in an attempt to form an argument. Strewth! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 4, 2015 think we all want meaningful games. I recall the 70s with 16 teams in the league. I know it was a different period in speedway, but the straight league worked. to get these meaningful games, speedway has to become credible. Doubling up is dreadful, im sure we all want a team to follow, but not different line ups each week. The double pointer, again, not credible. lets get this sport back to a credible situation. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanF 295 Posted December 4, 2015 well as a fan I can tell you 100% I would prefer straight league traditional championship. If I was promoter of Leicester, id choose play offs as its a chance for them to creep in fourth to make bit of money. if I was promoter of poole, id choose straight championship, as a successful side automatically draw crowds, and the night they wrap it up,would automatically get the large crowd you keep on about! I don't have any figures, Speedway is notorious for not releasing attendance figures or financials. I know that I watched the Belle Vue v Poole grand final meeting last night and they said it was the largest crowd they had ever seen in that stadium. You may be right about increasing "regular season" crowds if there were no play offs. Neither of us know. With the current financial situation in the sport, nobody is going to risk taking away the play offs and hoping that regular crowds increase. The only real objective data that I can see is that the PL and NL have tried both and have chosen the play off route. I can't think of a good reason why they would do that if it wasn't financially beneficial. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 4, 2015 I don't have any figures, Speedway is notorious for not releasing attendance figures or financials. I know that I watched the Belle Vue v Poole grand final meeting last night and they said it was the largest crowd they had ever seen in that stadium. You may be right about increasing "regular season" crowds if there were no play offs. Neither of us know. With the current financial situation in the sport, nobody is going to risk taking away the play offs and hoping that regular crowds increase. The only real objective data that I can see is that the PL and NL have tried both and have chosen the play off route. I can't think of a good reason why they would do that if it wasn't financially beneficial. I will ask you what I asked others. would a Edinburgh fan travel away, knowing they are already in the play offs the following week? probably not, hence, that specific match would have a lower gate, because Edinburgh fans would wait until the play offs, boosting that attendance. you take from one and give to another? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I will ask you what I asked others. would a Edinburgh fan travel away, knowing they are already in the play offs the following week? probably not, hence, that specific match would have a lower gate, because Edinburgh fans would wait until the play offs, boosting that attendance. you take from one and give to another? But they would if it was a meaningless league match under the old format ? Edited December 4, 2015 by Oldace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted December 4, 2015 But they would if it was a meaningless league match under the old format ? it wouldn't be meaningless if they could win the league away from home..but knowing theres a play off coming up, it would change the perceptive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanF 295 Posted December 4, 2015 I will ask you what I asked others. would a Edinburgh fan travel away, knowing they are already in the play offs the following week? probably not, hence, that specific match would have a lower gate, because Edinburgh fans would wait until the play offs, boosting that attendance. you take from one and give to another? Maybe not. But then a supporter of a 5th place team riding away to a 4th place team is much more likely to travel if there is a play off place for 4th place. Somebody posted earlier that Wolverhampton had their biggest crowd for an end of season meeting against a Belle Vue team chasing 4th. How many of those would have turned up if there was no reward for finishing 4th? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
