ColinMills 1,728 Posted June 15, 2016 has anyone noticed if the league outcome would be any different under previous league scoring system? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCookie 753 Posted June 15, 2016 has anyone noticed if the league outcome would be any different under previous league scoring system? Or if anyone would actually care? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveallan81 330 Posted June 15, 2016 SCB, on 15 Jun 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:On of the best thing speedway has done in the last 10 years is the point scoring system. Its a shame you always get 3 for a win now as the 2 for a win, 3 for a bigger win was better. It makes 90% of heat 15's mean something. 90%, no. 50%, yes. 2015 Elite League: 108 matches Matches decided by heat 15: 51 (47.22%) Last-heat deciders: 20 (18.52%) Matches where home team has already lost and is attempting to stop away team getting full points: 10 (9.26%) Matches where home team has already won and is attempting to stop away team getting a point: 27 (25.00%) 2015 Premier League: 151 matches Matches decided by heat 15: 79 (52.32%) Last-heat deciders: 32 (21.19%) Matches where home team has already lost etc: 16 (10.60%) Matches where home team has already won etc: 24 (15.89%) 2015 Combined: 259 matches Matches decided by heat 15: 130 (50.19%) Last-heat deciders: 52 (20.08%) Matches where home team has already lost etc: 26 (10.04%) Matches where home team has already won etc: 51 (19.61%) I've gone back to 1978 for a comparison of sorts: British League: 105 LHD from 342 matches (30.70%) National League: 93 LHD from 379 matches (24.54%) 69.30% of BL and 75.46% of NL matches were decided by heat 12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ColinMills 1,728 Posted June 15, 2016 Or if anyone would actually care? my point was, the best team will win the league, no matter how often you freely give losing teams a point Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted June 15, 2016 Why not? The EL format's been fundamentally corrupted by promoting EDRs into the team on false averages thus negating the protection. As for the PL and NL why can't the T/S return? It worked superbly in this country for decades and still works equally well in Poland and Sweden so why is there the problem in Britain? Is it a case of rider cost? It is to do with cost, but I would question how it works 'perfectly well'. Several times this season clubs have been winning all the way through only for big guns such as Woffinden and Zmarzlik, or Hancock and Pawlicki to then team up in several races at the end and change the match completely. That was and still is one of the biggest flaws of that system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) my point was, the best team will win the league, no matter how often you freely give losing teams a point It may have no effect on the overall league table but that's not the point, it's about the meetings and matches being kept alive longer. Under the old system a score of 46-32 at heat 13 meant the match was over. Under this system there is the added interest that the away side still have something to race for. A 1-5 in heat 14 and you have a last heat decider. So, we throw this away because some people can't cope with what is a pretty basic system? If they struggle that much it's a wonder they know what the score is anyway. Anyway if someone finds the speedway system complex I recommend they keep well away from that other 'circus' sport of cricket. Not every sport has to have a football-style points system, especially when the system the have actually makes its matches more interesting or do we have to dumb down totally? Edited June 16, 2016 by rmc 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveallan81 330 Posted June 16, 2016 ColinMills, on 15 Jun 2016 - 11:14 PM, said:my point was, the best team will win the league, no matter how often you freely give losing teams a point The bonus point was introduced into the BL in 1985, and the PL in 1991, and stayed until 2008. In 42 different league campaigns there were 4 instances where the BP influenced the hypothetical '2-1-0" table: 2000 PL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2000.php 2002 PL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2002.php 2006 EL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2006.php 2008 EL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2008.php The latter two seasons were of course decided by play-offs. Since 2009 I make it that only the 2012 PL and 2014 EL would have seen the leaders change, 2 campaigns out of 14. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted June 16, 2016 The bonus point was introduced into the BL in 1985, and the PL in 1991, and stayed until 2008. In 42 different league campaigns there were 4 instances where the BP influenced the hypothetical '2-1-0" table: 2000 PL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2000.php 2002 PL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2002.php 2006 EL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2006.php 2008 EL http://www.speedwaygb.co/history/leaguetables2008.php The latter two seasons were of course decided by play-offs. Since 2009 I make it that only the 2012 PL and 2014 EL would have seen the leaders change, 2 campaigns out of 14. Quite correct. In 2002 Newcastle had more wins (21 to 20), but Sheffield won the league due to their massive home advantage, which was from a heavy grippy track than needed special fast engines which other teams riders didn't have, or had to hire for the night. Exeter used to have an even bigger advantage, being world beaters at home, but absolutely crap away at most tracks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted June 17, 2016 The old tac sub rule meant riders missed out on all their rides, can that be right for the riders? At least with the new rule they have proper opposition in their tac ride and have to give more effort to win. I hope we don't go back to the old rule. There's a few changes I do hope for mind ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobMcCaffery 2,752 Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) The old tac sub rule meant riders missed out on all their rides, can that be right for the riders? At least with the new rule they have proper opposition in their tac ride and have to give more effort to win. I hope we don't go back to the old rule. There's a few changes I do hope for mind ..... The principle was that riders were guaranteed three rides and the fourth was dependent on their form on the night and the tactical requirements of the team. Previously it had been just 2 under the 13 heat format but they did get a second-half ride in compensation. In the same way a number 8 had to be given two rides in the second half. Edited June 17, 2016 by rmc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsunami 10,219 Posted June 17, 2016 The principle was that riders were guaranteed three rides and the fourth was dependent on their form on the night and the tactical requirements of the team. Previously it had been just 2 under the 13 heat format but they did get a second-half ride in compensation. In the same way a number 8 had to be given two rides in the second half. Which I believe still has to happen. A team brought Bewley up to Brough before he signed for Edinburgh, and he rode once in the meeting and then had his second ride in the second half before our juniors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted June 23, 2016 More evidence of the pts system being great in last nights Sky meeting. Without it, would we have seen such a fantastic race between NKI and KK in Heat 15? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
