iris123 21,047 Posted June 25, 2017 Can only imagine this journalist is 'respected' in the same way old duffer John Hyam might be 'respected'.Ever decreasing circle,springs to mind Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,955 Posted June 25, 2017 1. Bruce Penhall 2. Jack Milne 3. Greg Hancock 4. Sam Ermolenko 5. Dennis Sigalos Bubbling just under: Billy Hamill, Cordy Milne, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Shawn Moran and Lance King. All the best Rob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 25, 2017 Bear in mind Sidney the robin that the opinions of Scott Daloisio are coming from an American perspective. They originally appeared in an American publication. Daloisio writes as he has seen Bast and the others active against each other on American tracks, not speculating on how they might have shown against each other in other parts of the world. Remember that achieving his multi-US National Championship victories, Bast accomplished these in meetings where American riders who had featured strongly in the European season, returned to challenge for the title and were ultimately outpaced by him. What would be interesting i cant be bothered to look back,maybe it could be on Brian Collins website?? was his record at Ascot.? On the little technical tracks yes what a force he would of been but what about the big uns like at Belle Vue,Swindon,Halifax,Sheffield,White City ( outclassed in 77 Penhall was competetive Bast had a superior pedigree to Penhall then) Exeter.All those answers niggle away Penhall and Hancock are two examples without England they would of never of been world champions in my view.Can only imagine this journalist is 'respected' in the same way old duffer John Hyam might be 'respected'.Ever decreasing circle,springs to mindI do respect Mr Hyam;s opinion and he has made a very good case from the Americans perspective. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) What would be interesting i cant be bothered to look back,maybe it could be on Brian Collins website?? was his record at Ascot.? On the little technical tracks yes what a force he would of been but what about the big uns like at Belle Vue,Swindon,Halifax,Sheffield,White City ( outclassed in 77 Penhall was competetive Bast had a superior pedigree to Penhall then) Exeter.All those answers niggle away Penhall and Hancock are two examples without England they would of never of been world champions in my view. I do respect Mr Hyam;s opinion and he has made a very good case from the Americans perspective. As you say Sidney, from what I have read nearly all, if not all of the Tracks in the USA are/were small. It is no surprise to me that Bast struggled over here. Over in the USA, Autrey, Hancock, Hamill etc. would probably struggle on those smaller Tracks as they would no longer be used to them, so the fact that he was beating everybody, including those mentioned, in the States is no surprise either. Bast was a good, Rider in has own environment/comfort zone, but - to me anyway - he never proved his greatness in the different Leagues around the World. Mauger, Briggs, Collins, Michanek were all truly great Riders, they proved themselves everywhere - I am afraid that in that pantheon of Stars he just doesn't measure up. Mike Bast, good Rider, but in my opinion definitely not a great Rider. Edited June 25, 2017 by The White Knight Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) There is a problem in regard to naming the TOP FIVE American riders. On the forum we are specialising in those who rode in Britain/Europe. Besides the much debate Mike Bast, there have been many other 'domestic USA riders' over the years. We have no actual idea how good they are or were. And a look at this list will prove how far beyond our comprehension it is to rate them. Furthermore, most opinions of posters on this thread are relating to California-based speedway riders, but over the years there have been other speedway areas. To show what a near impossible task it is in defining American riders, study these area lists which I notice do not seem to have any indication for pre- and immediate post-war riders: https://www.speedwaybikes.com/rw/ American Speedway Riders California Speedway Riders California Youth Speedway Riders In Memory of American Speedway Riders East Coast Speedway Riders Central US and Canada Riders Colorado Speedway Riders Montana & Idaho Speedway Riders Oregon Speedway Riders Edited June 25, 2017 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney the robin 4,735 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) I just cant get my head around that statement from Mr Daloisio that it was a certainty that he would of won multiple world titles.🤔 Edited June 25, 2017 by Sidney the robin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted June 25, 2017 I just cant get my head around that statement from Mr Daloisio that it was a certainty that he would of won multiple world titles. Not a prayer to even win one World Title, in my opinion. Perhaps at Costa Mesa - but I wouldn't be certain about that either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) For those BSF members who also have FACEBOOK, you can find Scott Daloisio. In the 'search Facebook' just key in: scott daloisio sports There is some excellent American speedway and other USA motorsport material to be found there. Edited June 25, 2017 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keef robin 551 Posted June 25, 2017 Penhall Hancock Ermolenko Moran Autrey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,564 Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) For those BSF members who also have FACEBOOK, you can find Scott Daloisio. In the 'search Facebook' just key in: scott daloisio sports There is some excellent American speedway and other USA motorsport material to be found there. seems plain weird to put such credence on a fan-cum-reporter with little experience or knowledge of the sport outside of a few tracks on the west coast of the US. But hey, there's nowt funnier than folk. Here's mine: Penhall Hancock Ermolenko Hamill S Moran Edited June 25, 2017 by falcace 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) seems plain weird to put such credence on a fan-cum-reporter with little experience or knowledge of the sport outside of a few tracks on the west coast of the US. But hey, there's nowt funnier than folk. I tend to disagree with your opinion of Scott Daloisio. He is a leading west coast photographer and has been for many years. He is also a respected west coast journalist and specialises in speedway and other motor sports. The article under debate was published in a leading west coast publication 'Dirt Bike' which covers all forms of motor cycle sport. The article in regard to the 10 riders needs to be accepted in the context that it is based upon speedway happenings on the USA's west coast (which covers an area far larger than Britain) and only relates to speedway performances in that part of the USA. It does not relate rider performances in regard to their activities away from the west coast i.e in Europe. The majority of American readers have little or know interest on how their riders perform in Europeam speedway. Like it or lump it but to American fans Mike Bast is a speedway legend albeit based on his performances in his homeland. In the USA Bast had the beatingof all the American riders who came to race in Britain. Bast had no interest in riding regularly in Europe - big USA track earnings, a business and family, and comfortable lifestyle kept him in California. But these facts should not diminish his reputation as a top class speedway rider. Edited June 25, 2017 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The White Knight 9,039 Posted June 25, 2017 I tend to disagree with your opinion of Scott Daloisio. He is a leading west coast photographer and has been for many years. He is also a respected west coast journalist and specialises in speedway and other motor sports. The article under debate was published in a leading west coast publication 'Dirt Bike' which covers all forms of motor cycle sport. The article in regard to the 10 riders needs to be accepted in the context that it is based upon speedway happenings on the USA's west coast (which covers an area far larger than Britain) and only relates to speedway performances in that part of the USA. It does not relate rider performances in regard to their activities away from the west coast i.e in Europe. The majority of American readers have little or know interest on how their riders perform in Europeam speedway. Like it or lump it but to American fans Mike Bast is a speedway legend albeit based on his performances in his homeland. In the USA Bast had the beatingof all the American riders who came to race in Britain. Bast had no interest in riding regularly in Europe - big USA track earnings, a business and family, and comfortable lifestyle kept him in California. But these facts should not diminish his reputation as a top class speedway rider. But he did come over here to try to match the achievements of Autrey and the other Americans, he couldn't do it and went back to the USA with his tail between his legs, as I remember. That is why I say that he was a good Rider in his own back yard and conditions. The other Americans proved themselves on the Speedway Tracks of the whole World - not just a little corner of it. I think the Reporter/Photographer Scott Daloisio either hasn't watched Speedway at that time in Europe or, he is ignorant of just how very good Autrey and those other Americans over here were. Whichever way you look at it, as far as I am concerned, he is quite simply wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) But he did come over here to try to match the achievements of Autrey and the other Americans, he couldn't do it and went back to the USA with his tail between his legs, as I remember. That is why I say that he was a good Rider in his own back yard and conditions. The other Americans proved themselves on the Speedway Tracks of the whole World - not just a little corner of it. I think the Reporter/Photographer Scott Daloisio either hasn't watched Speedway at that time in Europe or, he is ignorant of just how very good Autrey and those other Americans over here were. Whichever way you look at it, as far as I am concerned, he is quite simply wrong. Are you sure Mike Bast actually tried to get a place in a British team? I don't recall that. You are not getting him confused with his brother Steve who came to join Wembley at the start of the 1970s and, as I recall, returned home after just two matches? So far as Scott Daloisio is concerned - I don't think he has ever watched speedway in Europe. As has been made clear previously his assessment of the riders as mentions in his article is based on their showings ONLY IN USA speedway. A look at the UK exploits of STEVE Bast: http://www.speedwayatoz.co.uk/pdfs/bast%20steve.pdf Edited June 26, 2017 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grachan 7,364 Posted June 26, 2017 I actually dont take this blokes opinion to seriously to be honest i listen to the likes of Briggs/Mauger and they both rated Bast so that was good anough for me.Also most of us on here respect Bast i certainly do and from interviews seems like a really nice bloke.But to put Bast in front of Autrey and Sigalos for me is a big slur on those two those two did it against world class riders Bast did not.Also i find the Muller/Bast comparison amazing Muller was World Class most of us on my bus who went to Norden in 83 had him favourite we all wanted him in the sweep stake.Bast say for example if he had qualfied for the Coliseum in 1982 and this is my own opinion only even with a month's practice on that track he still would not of been good anough to be World Champion i am convinced of that.The reasons for that is he had not got the experience for one and had not learned the ropes and paid his dues. Spot on post Sidney. Echoes my opinion completely. Even regarding the sweepstake on the bus in 1983! To look at how god Bast was you only need to look at when he rode at White City in the Inter Continental Final. He and Penhall were out of their depth. Penhall did something about it. Bast didn't and would have remained at that level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) Spot on post Sidney. Echoes my opinion completely. Even regarding the sweepstake on the bus in 1983! To look at how god Bast was you only need to look at when he rode at White City in the Inter Continental Final. He and Penhall were out of their depth. Penhall did something about it. Bast didn't and would have remained at that level. Be that as it may, Mike Bast did not impress in that World Championship qualifier at the White City. But also remember that he did not follow the same path as Bruce Penhall because HE WAS NOT INTERESTED in riding in Europe. He was earning far more by racing in the USA, had a business and very importantly a family consider. And obviously a California life style has great attractions. Speedway-wise on USA tracks he was able to match the best visitors from the rest of the world - a fact both Barry Briggs and Ivan Mauger have testified to elsewhere over the years. Edited June 26, 2017 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
