mikebv 10,292 Posted March 2, 2021 One thing really noticeable for me having watched lots of old racing (60/ 70'/80's in the main) on YouTube lately, is how much the entry speed into the bends has increased, and how much more "sideways" the riders get as they scrub off that speed to get round the bends. . The older stuff had riders much more 'open' as they went around the turns which meant they kept a much smoother line around them... Maybe the harder tyres were the reason? Maybe the deeper tracks? Maybe the engine location in the bikes? Whatever it was, there certainly seemed to be closer racing and more potential to overtake the rider in front through track craft and throttle/grip control than currently exists today where riders seem to just hit an apex on full gas, drift up the track, lock up before hitting the fence, and fly down the next straight to repeat the manoeuvre... The width of the tracks at some circuits appear irrelevant as only the same part is used in virtually every race. .. As you can only assume bikes are not going to get slower, then the only solution it would appear is to change the track shapes if we want racing similar to what the likes of the NSS, Peterborough, Somerset and Scunthorpe deliver regularly. . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenga 2,998 Posted March 2, 2021 throw away those lay down engine plates . strap in a weslake and let the rider do the rest . how long will it take to get the Odsal track burnt through to the concrete/tarmac with these high revving motors . some riders will not be happy until the have gardened through to the base . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 6:55 AM, steve roberts said: Remember Kelly Moran giving one a try and saying how much more difficult it was to handle...and this from one of the most naturally gifted riders! Personally I felt that it was yet another move that only resorting in making the sport more expensive with riders having to adapt and for what benefit? I've just read Kelly Moran's book 'Hell of a Life' and just to put the record straight after he had left the UK for good he decided to resurrect his career back in the States. He initially found the laydowns difficult to handle but managed to overcome them and got to enjoy riding them...fellow Statesman Mike Faria, however, hated them stating that they were somewhat unpredictable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cityrebel 2,960 Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 11:57 AM, mikebv said: One thing really noticeable for me having watched lots of old racing (60/ 70'/80's in the main) on YouTube lately, is how much the entry speed into the bends has increased, and how much more "sideways" the riders get as they scrub off that speed to get round the bends. . The older stuff had riders much more 'open' as they went around the turns which meant they kept a much smoother line around them... Maybe the harder tyres were the reason? Maybe the deeper tracks? Maybe the engine location in the bikes? Whatever it was, there certainly seemed to be closer racing and more potential to overtake the rider in front through track craft and throttle/grip control than currently exists today where riders seem to just hit an apex on full gas, drift up the track, lock up before hitting the fence, and fly down the next straight to repeat the manoeuvre... The width of the tracks at some circuits appear irrelevant as only the same part is used in virtually every race. .. As you can only assume bikes are not going to get slower, then the only solution it would appear is to change the track shapes if we want racing similar to what the likes of the NSS, Peterborough, Somerset and Scunthorpe deliver regularly. . We can all dream can't we. Most of us have to make do with what we've got, locally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray c 2,299 Posted March 5, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 5:10 PM, cityrebel said: I also fear a lot of dog stadiums could fall by the wayside, which will lead to a natural reduction in club numbers. agree with greyhounds gone at poole now not sure what the long term future will be at wimborne road .we got speedway this season coming but who knows after that .? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSL84 541 Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, ray c said: agree with greyhounds gone at poole now not sure what the long term future will be at wimborne road .we got speedway this season coming but who knows after that .? As not Matt Ford and a few others took over the lease of the stadium? Edited March 5, 2021 by Trackerman48 Missed some words Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ray c 2,299 Posted March 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Trackerman48 said: As not Matt Ford and a few others took over the lease of the stadium? Still in the hands of stadia uk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSL84 541 Posted March 6, 2021 9 hours ago, ray c said: Still in the hands of stadia uk Ok was told Matt was or is talking on the lease. And that was the only way speedway could run. If true good luck to all involved we need all tracks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ringitsneck 348 Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Wrong thread, sorry. Edited March 6, 2021 by Ringitsneck Wrong thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HackneyHawk 64 Posted March 9, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 7:24 PM, Jonny the spud said: I give it till tomorrow before the “ the bikes are too fast nowadays/ there’s no skill involved in riding them (even though most of the critics wouldn’t even know how to start a bike), let’s go back to uprights/ black leathers and bibs/ proper cinders on the tracks/ eeeeeee I saw Tommy ( the mad wellie) Wilkinshaw in 1952 and he used to ride with a rusty Brillo pad on his helmet” brigade come and tell you that’s what’s needed. I love this answer even though I'm one of the rusty brillo pad brigade!!! Seriously though, I've been around a long time and thought about this alot and I think many of speedways problems are that it can't make it's mind up between being a sport or being a sideshow. The sidesjow aspect worked when noone had tellies or playstations! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted March 10, 2021 The answers won't come from people on this forum, nor will they come from the pages of Speedway Star or any current promoters. Everyone is too damn close to the sport to see its fatal flaws. It needs fresh, independent authority given the latitude to make major strategic changes. I don't subscribe to the opinion that the racing was better in the 70s and 80s. I think some of the modern day racing in the GPs and at good race tracks like Belle Vue is as good as, if not better than any racing seen before. But, I'm a speedway fan. Like everyone else on here, I am biased. The unpalatable truth is the product is not good enough for the general public outside of the ageing speedway bubble. Doubling up, relegation/promotion, lay down engines etc....nobody outside the sport gives a monkeys toss. I've said it before and I'll say it again...speedway's problem is not that is has changed since the 1970s. It is that it has not changed enough. Every successful sport that attracts a good following is light years away from what it was 40-50 years ago. Speedway isn't. Football was a weekly ritual avoiding (or seeking?) a punch-up and the possibility of getting p*ssed on by some idiot who couldn't be arsed to go to the stinking bogs Rugby was watching 30 (or 26) roly-polys rolling around in the mud Cricket was 5 days of watching the likes of Geoff Boycott painfully make a century to draw Boxing was a night at a sticky York Hall where you risk being hit with a flying bottle or caught in a riot Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit...but all of the above have modernised their products massively to appeal to a wider audience...and if they served up a similar product to what they did in the 70s, they'd be in the sh*t like speedway. Yet, speedway looks back and thinks if it could only recreate the 70s, the crowds would come flocking back. Dream on. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Stadia 1,071 Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, falcace said: The answers won't come from people on this forum, nor will they come from the pages of Speedway Star or any current promoters. Everyone is too damn close to the sport to see its fatal flaws. It needs fresh, independent authority given the latitude to make major strategic changes. I don't subscribe to the opinion that the racing was better in the 70s and 80s. I think some of the modern day racing in the GPs and at good race tracks like Belle Vue is as good as, if not better than any racing seen before. But, I'm a speedway fan. Like everyone else on here, I am biased. The unpalatable truth is the product is not good enough for the general public outside of the ageing speedway bubble. Doubling up, relegation/promotion, lay down engines etc....nobody outside the sport gives a monkeys toss. I've said it before and I'll say it again...speedway's problem is not that is has changed since the 1970s. It is that it has not changed enough. Every successful sport that attracts a good following is light years away from what it was 40-50 years ago. Speedway isn't. Football was a weekly ritual avoiding (or seeking?) a punch-up and the possibility of getting p*ssed on by some idiot who couldn't be arsed to go to the stinking bogs Rugby was watching 30 (or 26) roly-polys rolling around in the mud Cricket was 5 days of watching the likes of Geoff Boycott painfully make a century to draw Boxing was a night at a sticky York Hall where you risk being hit with a flying bottle or caught in a riot Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit...but all of the above have modernised their products massively to appeal to a wider audience...and if they served up a similar product to what they did in the 70s, they'd be in the sh*t like speedway. Yet, speedway looks back and thinks if it could only recreate the 70s, the crowds would come flocking back. Dream on. Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikebv 10,292 Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. 100% agree.. The cost to compete and the cost to spectate is the absolute biggest hurdle standing in the way of the sport growing.. Promoters will want riders to have the 'best kit' so riders will ask for the money that let's them buy the 'best kit'.. The Promoters will then have to pass this expense on to the public if not enough sponsors are forthcoming... The triple irony being that winning any domestic Speedway team title has been rendered pretty worthless by its operating model, and the 'best kit' is often actually needed by the rider himself to pursue his own global ambitions, with these ambitions then restricting the club's fixture planning to a narrow window of nights that are available.. Growing your fanbase significantly at circa £18 a ticket isnt going to be an easy sell I would think, yet those ever spiraling costs wont allow for any much needed reduction in price to get the "goneaways' in particular back interested again.. And for me, getting those that 'used to go' to attend again, has to be easier than attracting a newbie to regularly take up the sport.. Its currently a fair old race to the bottom between promoters and riders unless some better plan can be unleashed.. Edited March 10, 2021 by mikebv 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said: Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. Product-Price-Place-Promotion I have serious doubts these simple strategic considerations are ever given any time at the BSPA conference. A final point on looking back...it's dangerously rose-tinted and romanticised. I was at my most fanatical in the early 80s watching Belle Vue at Hyde Road. So, when I discovered someone had uploaded two meetings on YouTube of Aces v Halifax and Aces v Cradley from 1982, I was chuffed. Collins, Morton, Penhall, Gundersen, Carter...jumpers for starting tapes ...what could be better? The harsh truth is, through 21st century eyes, it was all a bit underwhelming. And if the video evidence wasn't there before my eyes, I would have swore blind that these meetings were thrill-a-minute with overtaking galore. They were not. What would have passed as great entertainment then, wouldn't be now. Edited March 10, 2021 by falcace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray Stadia 1,071 Posted March 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, falcace said: Product-Price-Place-Promotion I have serious doubts these simple strategic considerations are ever given any time at the BSPA conference. A final point on looking back...it's dangerously rose-tinted and romanticised. I was at my most fanatical in the early 80s watching Belle Vue at Hyde Road. So, when I discovered someone had uploaded two meetings on YouTube of Aces v Halifax and Aces v Cradley from 1982, I was chuffed. Collins, Morton, Penhall, Gundersen, Carter...jumpers for starting tapes ...what could be better? The harsh truth is, through 21st century eyes, it was all a bit underwhelming. And if the video evidence wasn't there before my eyes, I would have swore blind that these meetings were thrill-a-minute with overtaking galore. What was considered great entertainment then, wouldn't be now. Of course, as we know with most, if not all motorsports, seeing it on TV is nothing like being there. It's the same whether it's F1, British Superbikes, Moto GP or indeed Speedway. Speedway has mostly been 'first from the tapes' forever, but most fans accept that, but now and again, you get a cracker of a heat! You say that yesteryear meetings on YouTube wouldn't be entertainment now and yet, there have been fans on this forum who have said they enjoy National League meetings more than the higher leagues. Fans are not only looking for spectacular heats, they are looking for the atmosphere, the sound, the smell, the camaraderie, the riding improvement of the second strings, the sportsmanship and in many instances, a nice pint and a tray of chips! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites