salty 2,202 Posted April 8, 2021 Just wishing to pick the brains of the BSP gang. Last week in the Star's feature on "Greatest Gaffers" Peter made reference to a rule whereby in 1982 BL teams could name four reserves and use any two of them in a meeting. I don't have any recollection of that rule myself, though I can remember Cradley declaring their numbers 8,9 and 10. Anybody got a better memory? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve roberts 9,246 Posted April 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, salty said: Just wishing to pick the brains of the BSP gang. Last week in the Star's feature on "Greatest Gaffers" Peter made reference to a rule whereby in 1982 BL teams could name four reserves and use any two of them in a meeting. I don't have any recollection of that rule myself, though I can remember Cradley declaring their numbers 8,9 and 10. Anybody got a better memory? I certainly don't recall such a rule personally? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,430 Posted April 8, 2021 i remember there being some sort of squad system, didn't think it was that far back though. was it a way of using NL riders how they wanted? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,102 Posted April 9, 2021 15 hours ago, steve roberts said: I certainly don't recall such a rule personally? We're talking about British speedway, Steve; NOTHING should surprise you as far as rules - including people not even being made aware of the rules... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salty 2,202 Posted April 9, 2021 14 hours ago, stevehone said: i remember there being some sort of squad system, didn't think it was that far back though. was it a way of using NL riders how they wanted? Adams definitely quotes 1982. The context was that Charles Ochiltree contacted him a week prior to Cradley's visit to Brandon to find out which reserves would be riding. Adams said he declined to confirm and subsequently he and Ochiltree never spoke again. He mentions the use of Wigg, but as I recall he was only used following Penhall's departure and not as a replacement for one of the other reserves. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevehone 3,430 Posted April 9, 2021 ahhh ok, don't get the star so didn't see it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arnieg 3,649 Posted April 9, 2021 I thought I would clear this up by reading the 1982 Rulebook - how foolish was I think that would resolve the matter!!! On reading the 1982 rulebook D1.3(a) makes it clear each team must declare a named seven, elsewhere (for example C4) there are rules restricting the use of loanees. As always the rulebook is less than 100% clear (I can't find a clear statement on what replacements are allowed when a reserve should voluntarily absent themselves, B7 is probably the relevant sub-section) so it feels like Pete Adams was operating at the fringes of what was legal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salty 2,202 Posted April 9, 2021 2 hours ago, stevehone said: ahhh ok, don't get the star so didn't see it " My one big regret is falling out with Charles. I think it was 1982, it was when BL teams could name four reserves and use any two of them for any meeting. One of my four was Simon Wigg. It was near the end of the season...." Goes onto explain that Ochiltree wanted to know the team a week before so he could print extra programmes. Adams offered him six names but wasn't sure on the seventh. Ochiltree replies "It better not be Simon Wigg". Of course it was. I'll dig out my programmes to see if that can shed any light. I know Cradley had started the season with Joe Owen as number 8, Drury at 9 and Pullen at 10 and used a number of riders to cover injuries to Andy Reid at reserve - Wayne Jackson and Bill Barratt spring to mind. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted April 9, 2021 3 hours ago, salty said: " My one big regret is falling out with Charles. I think it was 1982, it was when BL teams could name four reserves and use any two of them for any meeting. One of my four was Simon Wigg. It was near the end of the season...." Goes onto explain that Ochiltree wanted to know the team a week before so he could print extra programmes. Adams offered him six names but wasn't sure on the seventh. Ochiltree replies "It better not be Simon Wigg". Of course it was. I'll dig out my programmes to see if that can shed any light. I know Cradley had started the season with Joe Owen as number 8, Drury at 9 and Pullen at 10 and used a number of riders to cover injuries to Andy Reid at reserve - Wayne Jackson and Bill Barratt spring to mind. Jan Verner and Ian Gledhill also rode at reserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted April 9, 2021 5 hours ago, salty said: Adams definitely quotes 1982. The context was that Charles Ochiltree contacted him a week prior to Cradley's visit to Brandon to find out which reserves would be riding. Adams said he declined to confirm and subsequently he and Ochiltree never spoke again. He mentions the use of Wigg, but as I recall he was only used following Penhall's departure and not as a replacement for one of the other reserves. Not sure that's correct. He may only have been used after Penhall retired, but not as a replacement for Penhall...pretty sure they used R/R to cover Bruce and Wiggy at reserve in their final match at hyde rd (not certain if that was in the BL or the KO cup) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) The four reserve rule was utilized at Belle Vue during 1982. Ian Thomas had been appointed team manager at Hyde Road during the year and introduced Rod Hunter and Bobby Beaton from his National League Newcastle team to the BV squad. I seem to recall Thomas signed Beaton for the Aces from recently defunct Hull so he could use him with Newcastle in the lower league on a bargain 7.50 average. Out-of-sorts Peter Ravn was the early casualty to make way for the reserves shake-up. Sixteen-year-old Andy Smith was also given a few appearances for the Aces. In fact, Hunter and Smith were called up for the second leg of October's Knock-Out Cup Final (vs. Cradley) to replace regulars Jimmy McMillan and Peter Carr. Both had endured a disappointing first leg the week before at Dudley Wood. McMillan was still miffed about being axed, almost 40 years later, when he recalled it in a recent Speedway Star interview. Edited April 9, 2021 by moxey63 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatface 2,554 Posted April 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, moxey63 said: McMillan was still miffed about being axed, almost 40 years later, when he recalled it in a recent Speedway Star interview. The sign of a true competitor He has a point though, Andy Smith was a very raw 16 year old to be thrown into a cup final at the time. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, waiheke1 said: Not sure that's correct. He may only have been used after Penhall retired, but not as a replacement for Penhall...pretty sure they used R/R to cover Bruce and Wiggy at reserve in their final match at hyde rd (not certain if that was in the BL or the KO cup) Simon Wigg rode twice in the team with Bruce Penhall and five times (of the 15 matches) after the American retired in August. I don't think Wigg was used as Penhall's replacement and Cradley could only operate R/Re. Edited April 9, 2021 by moxey63 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chunky 6,102 Posted April 9, 2021 6 hours ago, arnieg said: I thought I would clear this up by reading the 1982 Rulebook - how foolish was I think that would resolve the matter!!! Read what I said earlier! 6 hours ago, arnieg said: I so it feels like Pete Adams was operating at the fringes of what was legal. Again, that's something that NEVER happens in British speedway... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted April 10, 2021 18 hours ago, moxey63 said: The four reserve rule was utilized at Belle Vue during 1982. Ian Thomas had been appointed team manager at Hyde Road during the year and introduced Rod Hunter and Bobby Beaton from his National League Newcastle team to the BV squad. I seem to recall Thomas signed Beaton for the Aces from recently defunct Hull so he could use him with Newcastle in the lower league on a bargain 7.50 average. Out-of-sorts Peter Ravn was the early casualty to make way for the reserves shake-up. Sixteen-year-old Andy Smith was also given a few appearances for the Aces. In fact, Hunter and Smith were called up for the second leg of October's Knock-Out Cup Final (vs. Cradley) to replace regulars Jimmy McMillan and Peter Carr. Both had endured a disappointing first leg the week before at Dudley Wood. McMillan was still miffed about being axed, almost 40 years later, when he recalled it in a recent Speedway Star interview. Did the aces name an 8,9,10,11? I remember Beaton and Hunter making a very limited number of appearance, and young Andy at the end of the season (can't imagine he would have been named at the start of the season). Pretty sure no others rode, but were any others named? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites