For or against the GP series.?

[fatface 2,554]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

 I have to admit I did lose interest in the 80s and 90s, though I still managed to get along to some meetings at Ipswich and followed the sport in the Speedway Star, so what I have to say, may be a bit unfair on that era. But, I do feel that speedway lost its way a bit during that period, which is maybe why I lost interest.

Easy. That's my era you are talking about there! 

Seriously though, as much as I was into the sport then, I'd be kidding myself that the sport didn't fall behind badly in that period. Some of it bad luck, some of it external factors, but plenty of it through poor management and lack of foresight. The 80s started with a host of household names....PC, Mauger, Olsen, Lee, Carter, Penhall, World Finals in front of packed crowds at Wembley, Gothenburg, regular terrestrial tv coverage, national media interest and some iconic stadiums like Hyde Road and Plough Lane. By the late 80s/early 90s all of that was gone.

[chunky 6,094]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

That change came about with the Grand Prix and I absolutely agree with those that say that it is a much fairer way of finding the best rider in the world over a whole season.

So, to sum up, I do think the introduction of the Grand Prix was the right thing to do at the right time, but I do not agree that it has produced more thrilling and spectacular riders. They have always been around.

Your first point is one that a lot of fans seem to forget. They just want something that pleases and excites them, but what about the competitors? They are the ones out there doing it, and they certainly deserve a system that is fair - which the GP is.

I'm not sure that anyone has claimed that the GP's have "produced" more spectacular riders, but simply state that Zmarzlik is perhaps the craziest rider of all time!

[coventry1963 99]

Watching a sawdust laden, soaking wet track in the 70s was not conducive to anything other than processional, spread out "racing". Been a fan since early 1960s and there has always been good and bad races and meetings. Rose coloured spectacles apart, thrill merchants have always been around and not always the big names!

With regard to Peter Craven, I was taken by my father to one of my first meetings at Brandon because Peter Craven was riding and I can still see him in my mind's eye, my father pointing him out, entering the turns after the first lap with his foot still up on the footrest! In 50+ years, I have never seen that since so comments about "the wizard of balance" have more than a casual basis.

With regard to comparing eras, I was very fortunate that my grandfather grew up with Jack Parker and Jack used to visit our house in his later years. He always said that the top guys from every era would have adapted and been at or close to the top in any other era. Jack, with a smile, always said he would still have been the best in any era!

[waiheke1 4,295]

23 hours ago, chunky said:

That is a point I have repeatedly made on here. I think in some of the following years, there were several finals that were equally weak.

Let's face it, in the 80s of the five continental qualifiers, only Muller was close to world class.  So you were guaranteed at least quarter of the field would not be competitive.

Additionally, every workd final of that era - except 81- was arguably missing at least one genuine title contender due to injury, one poor meeting etc 

And of course by mid-late 80s the sport had prematurely lost a number of riders who should have been at their peak- penhall, sigalos, sanders, carter, lee etc.

What a line up you could have had, without those losses and with a fairer system; Lee, Carter, Wigg, Tatum, Nielsen  Gundersen, Knudsen, Pedersen, Sigalos, Penhall, Ermolenko, Moran, Moran, Jonsson, Muller, Sanders  as an example.

Have to add, this is a superb thread; rational discussion and great memories.

[norbold 7,116]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

 

I'm not sure that anyone has claimed that the GP's have "produced" more spectacular riders, but simply state that Zmarzlik is perhaps the craziest rider of all time!

Did you ever see Christer Lofqvist?

[waiheke1 4,295]

26 minutes ago, norbold said:

Did you ever see Christer Lofqvist?

Or Declan Eccles?

[waiheke1 4,295]

21 hours ago, falcace said:

I agree with some of this. But I think it's telling to look at where the BLRC (or today's incarnation) is. It's a perfect example of what happens when a sport doesn't evolve and move forward. Today's Riders Championship is light years behind the occasion the BLRC was. The World Final was heading the same way at Norden, Vojens, Pocking and so forth. Without the evolution of the GPs, there is no doubt the World Championship would have been a pretty tepid occasion, untelevised in some British, Swedish or Polish backwater. Anyone who thinks the continuation of  World Finals would have meant massive Wembley occasions is kidding themselves. I got to a few World Finals....Norden, Bradford, Amsterdam, Bradford and Wroclaw...I can honestly say that all of them have been bettered by GP occasions I have attended in Cardiff, Torun, Bydgoszcz.

Agree. Some of the modern day racing in the GPs is staggering. You could spend hours scouring footage from the 70s, 80s on YouTube and you wouldn't find anything to beat some from the stuff served up by Zmarzlik, Woffinden, Janowski, Laguta, Sayfutdinov, Doyle and Lindgren. I admit to not be as invested in today's racing as I was in the 80s/90s...perhaps that's more to do with my age and other life commitments taking precedent? But I couldn't squarely look a modern day fan in the eye and tell them all the racing was better in the 80s/90s, it simply wasn't. 

This 100%. 

My favourite era in speedway is the 1980s. I was absolutely crazy about speedway. I still think it's great, but I don't have time to watch as much as i would like, and not living in europe - hence no access to live speedway - i no longer have that enotional connection to the sport that comes with watching your team race live on a weekly basis. 

like you i did most of my viewing at hyde rd, and agree the standard of racing today - at least at the top level - is generally better than that of the 80s. Certainly the quality of racing in gps is massively better than the 80s world finals. 

[auntie doris 2,342]

Speedway was massive in early 80s, as it was right from mid 60s till then for around 20 years. Don't know why it lost its popularity?

[iris123 20,990]

Well I missed that. Lost interest by 1978 and only went to a couple of meetings until started going regularly again in 1984. Certainly by then it wasn’t what it was in the 60s and 70s

[chunky 6,094]

5 hours ago, norbold said:

Did you ever see Christer Lofqvist?

Do you REALLY have to ask that??? 

[chunky 6,094]

4 hours ago, waiheke1 said:

like you i did most of my viewing at hyde rd, and agree the standard of racing today - at least at the top level - is generally better than that of the 80s. Certainly the quality of racing in gps is massively better than the 80s world finals. 

Yet people still won't have that. Like I said, the "greatest" world final of all time - is remembered for TWO races... 

[chunky 6,094]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Well I missed that. Lost interest by 1978 and only went to a couple of meetings until started going regularly again in 1984. Certainly by then it wasn’t what it was in the 60s and 70s

Much more noticeable when you've been out of the loop for several years.

[waiheke1 4,295]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Yet people still won't have that. Like I said, the "greatest" world final of all time - is remembered for TWO races... 

Tbh, it isn't remembered as arguably the last truly great world final just for the racing, but because it had "the whole package"

1. A truly world class lineup, with no genuine title contenders missing

2. A world class stadium, in a great city, with a huge crowd

3. Two superb races, that decided the destiny of the world title

4  A popular and deserved world champion,  who was clearly the best rider in the world that season. 

The racing at Odsal in 90 was better, BUT that ticked only the "racing" box...stadium, crowd, line-up were not comparable, nor, with all due respect, was the 1990 Per Jonsson in the same league as 1981 Penhall, as a rider or in terms of popularity  

[chunky 6,094]

28 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Tbh, it isn't remembered as arguably the last truly great world final just for the racing, but because it had "the whole package"

1. A truly world class lineup, with no genuine title contenders missing

2. A world class stadium, in a great city, with a huge crowd

3. Two superb races, that decided the destiny of the world title

4  A popular and deserved world champion,  who was clearly the best rider in the world that season. 

The racing at Odsal in 90 was better, BUT that ticked only the "racing" box...stadium, crowd, line-up were not comparable, nor, with all due respect, was the 1990 Per Jonsson in the same league as 1981 Penhall, as a rider or in terms of popularity  

Again, a lot of what you said comes down to the "occasion", rather than the actual meeting. I hadn't really though about it, but John Davis was probably the biggest name missing. Not that I ever considered him a true title contender, but he never even made it past Coventry.

Again, from what I've seen, 1976 was one of the best with regard to the actual racing.

[waiheke1 4,295]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

Again, a lot of what you said comes down to the "occasion", rather than the actual meeting. I hadn't really though about it, but John Davis was probably the biggest name missing. Not that I ever considered him a true title contender, but he never even made it past Coventry.

Again, from what I've seen, 1976 was one of the best with regard to the actual racing.

Agree re "occasion." 81 was the complete package, it wasn't great just because of the racing.

Would disagree re Davis. The best rider missing on form was Phil Crump (Crump for Ross was about the only change you could make to strengthen the lineup). The likes of Mauger, the Morans, Sigalos, Les and Peter Collins would all have been bigger threats on the night than Davis .

Agree, from what i have seen the 76 final was arguably the best for racing - maybe biased because a lot of that came from the deserving world champion.