British speedway is a joke.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,959]

13 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...and you have to ask the question why has football avoided going down that route? Would football fans except that scenario?

Playoff systems are relatively uncommon in Europe, but have been a feature of Latin American football for decades where they seem to be accepted. Going back in time, I believe Germany also had a playoff system in the pre-Bundesliga era when teams played in regional leagues.

Why it never happened in England is an interesting question, but possibly because the FA Cup was a major competition that provided the culmination to the season at one time. 

However, football fans would accept whatever they're used to, just the same as the fans in any sport. Fans would no doubt grumble initially, but over time would no doubt come to accept the system in the same way that the Superbowl, World Series, AFL/NRL Grand Finals are seen as important events. 

13 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Of course promotion playoffs have been the norm for many years now but I think I am right in saying that those who finish top in the various leagues (Championship, One & Two) are still crowned champions? Only those immediately below that are involved in playoffs to decide on who gets promoted?

The top two (three from Division 2) teams are automatically promoted. 3rd to 6th (4th to 7th in Division 2) playoff for the remaining promotion spot.

[Roger Jacobs 554]

11 hours ago, Trees said:

Hahahaha are you watching on Eurosport tonight?

Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker.

[steve roberts 9,246]

40 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Playoffs long pre-date the American sports, and were not hugely used even there until the expansion of the various major leagues from the 1960s onwards.

Baseball hardly used them beyond the World Series being a 'playoff' between rival leagues until expansion and the need for divisional structures and unbalanced schedules made this a necessity. American football plays so few games that there wasn't much choice once the NFL (and later AFL) expanded beyond a handful of teams. I think the Stanley Cup was again a 'playoff' between the champions of what were considered major leagues at any given moment (and these changed from time-to-time). 

In the meantime, I think the County Cricket Championship effectively had playoffs back in the 19th Century, Australian Rules certainly has always featured them, Rugby League had them years ago too.

Rugby Union - at least in England - didn't even have leagues until the 1980s, as they were considered too radical for the old farts running the sport at the time!

Interesting but I would argue that the coverage of American Football expecially in this country has influenced people's perception regarding "play-off" scenarios.

[Trees 2,814]

36 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker.

I think I'm with you on that one, it's most certainly for the TV ...... was a good meeting til that point as you say .....

[The Third Man 2,217]

42 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said:

Yes - it was a decent meeting. Witches earned a draw - and then they had the Stupid Heat ... the most pointless rule since the Tactical Joker.

Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16

[steve roberts 9,246]

1 minute ago, The Third Man said:

Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16

Personally I preferred the old aggregate bonus point system...far easier and simpler to understand!

[False dawn 2,298]

Well any team that scores 45 points and goes home with zero league points has to feel gutted, almost cheated, may I say. 
On the subject of the scoring system overall, the system immediately prior to the introduction of this super heat may be more complicated than the aggregate point idea. However, I always felt that despite the slight difficulty for the "uninitiated", it was a very fair system. The aggregate point system is simpler, but the two teams that compete in the "second leg" could easily be a totally different groups of riders (new signings, guests, heavens forbid, etc.) and it could be weeks (or even months) between the two legs.

For me, it's a case of, it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Steve Irving 393]

1 hour ago, The Third Man said:

Ipswich drew at Peterborough and got 3 points, Sheffield achieved the same result and got 1 point because of some stupid rule, speedway matches are over a maximum of 15 heats not 16

Well that just isn’t true this season is it? Sheffield had just as much opportunity to gain 3 points as Ipswich did last night, but they failed. That’s their problem. 

[GWC 495]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I preferred the old aggregate bonus point system...far easier and simpler to understand!

There is an argument for going back to a simpler system but it did have the effect of teams being built for home advantage.

Since the current system came about it has seen a lot closer results imo.

[orion 7,615]

Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been  robbed  as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a  great meeting and the  super  heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed  to British Fans are a joke..

Edited September 6, 2022 by orion

[Midland Red 2,383]

I remember attending Brandon every Saturday night (stock cars excepted), to see the speedway racing

I’d go most Tuesdays to Blackbird Road, to see the speedway

I enjoyed Bees winning, I enjoyed visiting teams winning at Leicester, but really it didn’t matter, as I’d enjoy the action from the 13 heat match and the second half, which I always stayed for

League, challenge, Midland Cup matches, plus World and Midland Championship qualifiers, Tests and other individual meetings

This attitude doesn’t seem to prevail any longer, judging by the comments on BSF - all this b0llocks about play-offs, rider changes, with journeymen “team members” - fans identified with “their riders” season after season, now it’s hardly match after match

Can’t remember many changes for the better since “the good old days”

[False dawn 2,298]

3 hours ago, orion said:

Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been  robbed  as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a  great meeting and the  super  heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed  to British Fans are a joke..

The rules are quite clear. That doesn't make them fair, sensible or popular.

[steve roberts 9,246]

49 minutes ago, False dawn said:

The rules are quite clear. That doesn't make them fair, sensible or popular.

...problem is that those in "control" feel the need to constantly change the rules/race format/points scored/points limits etc etc on an all too regular basis.

Edited September 6, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

4 hours ago, orion said:

Some of the comments on here are unreal The rules are quite clear that if the match is a draw a super heat will take place So no one has been  robbed  as everyone understands the rules before the match ... the match is not over set over 15 heats etc etc.as it can be 16 if needed .I know its going to upset a lot of people but last was a  great meeting and the  super  heat was fantastic giving the fans even more value for there money.. I think this topic should be changed  to British Fans are a joke..

I've attended meetings whereby even referees don't know that certain rules have been contravened/manipulated and frantic phone calls have had to be made to clear up any "misunderstanding" and/or "gamesmanship" by opposite Team Managers so what chance do fans have in some of the more extreme instances?

Edited September 6, 2022 by steve roberts

[steve roberts 9,246]

4 hours ago, Midland Red said:

I remember attending Brandon every Saturday night (stock cars excepted), to see the speedway racing

I’d go most Tuesdays to Blackbird Road, to see the speedway

I enjoyed Bees winning, I enjoyed visiting teams winning at Leicester, but really it didn’t matter, as I’d enjoy the action from the 13 heat match and the second half, which I always stayed for

League, challenge, Midland Cup matches, plus World and Midland Championship qualifiers, Tests and other individual meetings

This attitude doesn’t seem to prevail any longer, judging by the comments on BSF - all this b0llocks about play-offs, rider changes, with journeymen “team members” - fans identified with “their riders” season after season, now it’s hardly match after match

Can’t remember many changes for the better since “the good old days”

Funny when us "old farts" talk about the old days when thousands attended the sport and yet with all the constant rule changing that happens year after year speedway sees attendance figures in their hundreds?