Peter Collins Book

[Elmo 274]

Got a signed copy for Christmas, looking forward  to reading it.

[steve roberts 9,246]

7 hours ago, Elmo said:

Got a signed copy for Christmas, looking forward  to reading it.

Got mine as well...looking forward to reading it!

[fatface 2,554]

On 12/24/2022 at 5:12 PM, TonyMac said:

It's about context and respect. As keepturningleft pointed out: 'How many former Belle Vue riders can there be that live in or near Manchester? A tiny handful. It seems quite mean spirited of the BV management to stick with such rigid formality rather than show some heart, waive the entrance fee and instead wave these valued old timers in.'

In fairness to the current BV regime, my understanding from speaking to several ex-Aces who have attended meetings this year, the club management's policy seems to be that all-ex BV riders ARE admitted free of charge . . . BUT they first have to contact Mark Lemon to get the OK from him. That obviously wouldn't be necessarily (and would save Mark time having to reply to requests) if BV simply issued the handful who wish to attend a seasonal pass with a passport-style photo that cannot be transferred to a mate or anyone else.

It must be a little demeaning for prominent ex-riders, including one legend (not PC), to have to phone or text Lemon to get his permission. For this reason I know of one ex-Ace who, to avoid embarrassment, either just stays away or pays to get in.

It shouldn't be this way.

As for the lesser lights you mentioned, my purely personal view if that everyone who put their neck on the line for any club in at least six official senior matches should be offered a season pass. If I was running a track, I'd want the ex-riders to feel welcome. If they are, they are so much more likely to spread positive vibes about the speedway, which can only be a good thing when the paying support is diminishing at most venues.

Sorry Tony, I can't buy that.

Unless we have the exact number and names between Wee Eck's 180 and your "tiny handful" it's pure conjecture. I also can't go with the notion of riders "putting their neck on the line". I have admiration for anyone who gets their head above the parapet and goes for it in life, particularly if that is something dangerous like speedway or stepping into the boxing ring. But let's not pretend they are risking their lives for some greater noble cause and sacrifice. These are not volunteers marching off to war. They are sports people in it primarily for selfish reasons, personal glory and remuneration. Without those, they wouldn't be doing it. In PC's case, often very well remunerated, squeezing out as much as he could get from BV in his latter seasons. And fair play to him too...it's a short and dangerous career.

What makes me uncomfortable about this book is that it is a one sided take from someone who has had a brain injury. This has had an effect and as such, his interpretations are questionable at least. And, to be really, really honest, it's only been published because there is a few quid in it. We can't take it as some sort of historical document without the views of all other parties involved be they past and current BV management. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I was a big fan of PC and I've enjoyed lots of your output over the years. But let's say this as it is.

[steve roberts 9,246]

14 minutes ago, falcace said:

Sorry Tony, I can't buy that.

Unless we have the exact number and names between Wee Eck's 180 and your "tiny handful" it's pure conjecture. I also can't go with the notion of riders "putting their neck on the line". I have admiration for anyone who gets their head above the parapet and goes for it in life, particularly if that is something dangerous like speedway or stepping into the boxing ring. But let's not pretend they are risking their lives for some greater noble cause and sacrifice. These are not volunteers marching off to war. They are sports people in it primarily for selfish reasons, personal glory and remuneration. Without those, they wouldn't be doing it. In PC's case, often very well remunerated, squeezing out as much as he could get from BV in his latter seasons. And fair play to him too...it's a short and dangerous career.

What makes me uncomfortable about this book is that it is a one sided take from someone who has had a brain injury. This has had an effect and as such, his interpretations are questionable at least. And, to be really, really honest, it's only been published because there is a few quid in it. We can't take it as some sort of historical document without the views of all other parties involved be they past and current BV management. You can't have your cake and eat it.

I was a big fan of PC and I've enjoyed lots of your output over the years. But let's say this as it is.

...blimey I've only just started reading it! I'm intrigued to find out what all the fuss is about?

[TonyMac 720]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

What makes me uncomfortable about this book is that it is a one sided take from someone who has had a brain injury. This has had an effect and as such, his interpretations are questionable at least. And, to be really, really honest, it's only been published because there is a few quid in it.

Aren't all autobiographies by definition a one-sided take.

But, as I mentioned previously, much of what PC has written about respective BV managements is supported in print by George Carswell, who was financially involved under all regimes from John Perrin to David Gordon/Chris Morton.

Believe me, PC didn't decide to write his story for money. If so, he would have done it many years ago, when speedway had a far bigger following and more fans from his peak racing era were still around.

I accept your view that riders know the risks when they begin and that they go into it hoping to earn a living. And PC did very well out of speedway - no doubt - as did the sport out of him. But, come on, some goodwill from all tracks towards their past employees wouldn't go amiss - and wouldn't cost them a penny.

To make ex-riders pay (or ask) to get in is, of course, not a crime and it's every promoter's right to dictate his own policy. But it's churlish, mean-spirited and short-sighted when tracks need all the good PR they can muster in these financially ominous times. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by TonyMac

[keepturningleft 589]

Wonder if Brenda Craven and her family have to phone ahead to gain admittance to the Peter Craven memorial trophy meeting …

[moxey63 1,785]

The part of the brilliant PC book I found of most interest is when he became the promoter and his experience of working with John Perrin. I laughed at the punch-up at the Swinton club between Perrin and his co-promoter, Don Bowes. I think I actually have the pamphlet from that evening.

Mr. Perrin was a colourful character, not everyone's cuppa, but surely there are enough stories out there from riders who rode for him to retell in a book. I'd read it.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by moxey63

[Gordon Pairman 457]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:28 PM, TonyMac said:

But, as I mentioned previously, much of what PC has written about respective BV managements is supported in print by George Carswell, who was financially involved under all regimes from John Perrin to David Gordon/Chris Morton.

Just to set the record straight, and I have only good things to say about George Carswell, a man who was owed even more than I was when BV went bust in 2016, but he had no involvement in the Tony Mole years at Belle Vue nor the Pairman/Morton/Gordon ones, financial or otherwise.

[Speedtiger 327]

14 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said:

Just to set the record straight, and I have only good things to say about George Carswell, a man who was owed even more than I was when BV went bust in 2016, but he had no involvement in the Tony Mole years at Belle Vue nor the Pairman/Morton/Gordon ones, financial or otherwise.

You both carnt be right then…or is it a case of recollections vary?

[Gordon Pairman 457]

4 hours ago, Speedtiger said:

You both carnt be right then…or is it a case of recollections vary?

I don’t know about recollections. George was living and working in Canada during the period in question. Tony Mole ran all his speedway operations through one business of which he was the sole owner. In the short time I was involved - we set up the company in 2006 and I ceased to be a promoter after the end of the 2009 season - as I said, George had no financial involvement.

 

[TonyMac 720]

3 hours ago, Gordon Pairman said:

I don’t know about recollections. George was living and working in Canada during the period in question. Tony Mole ran all his speedway operations through one business of which he was the sole owner. In the short time I was involved - we set up the company in 2006 and I ceased to be a promoter after the end of the 2009 season - as I said, George had no financial involvement.

 

Maybe a bit disingenuous of you there, Gordon, although it's good that you have acknowledged George Carswell's role and the price he and his family ultimately paid for helping to prop up BV at various stages.

When I wrote earlier in this thread that George was 'financial involved' in all regimes from Perrin onwards and therefore provided support and insights to PC's printed take on events, I didn't necessarily mean he had money invested as a listed co-promoter or director of BV.

To put the record straight, some of the insights and factual recollections provided by George to Peter and I during the course of putting the book together include matters pertaining to the Tony Mole-Ian Thomas era, too. Ian contacted George asking if he would be prepared to sponsor any riders (essentially to facilitate the cost of including them in the team) and he did so in the case of Simon Stead. He'd also agreed to back Rory Schlein but Thomas U-turned and Aces signed Andy Smith instead.

More importantly, as mentioned in PC's book, George also told Mole and Thomas that he would finance a deal to bring Tai Woffinden to Kirky Lane. George explained: "One other interesting situation arose during one of my visits to Belle Vue. Tai Woffinden was reportedly going to Wolverhampton for the reported sum of £10,000 plus extras.

"As Tai had cut his teeth with the Colts I told Tony and Ian that I would match or beat the offer for him to become a Belle Vue asset. To my surprise, they said they weren’t interested."

George's input was also sought by the BV promotion after Mole sold out to David Gordon and Chris Morton, presumably during some of the period of your involvement. GC writes: "As the (2007 takeover) deal had come so late into the off-season they had great difficulty in putting out a competitive team. Chris phoned me in Vancouver and asked whether I would still sponsor Simon Stead, which I agreed to do. Chris and I had known each other for a considerable amount of time - in fact for a short period I had worked with Chris and Steve Casey at Allied Dunbar. The team predictably finished bottom of the league in 2007.

"Chris and I talked regularly by phone and discussed the potential of several up and coming riders. Prior to the start of 2011 Chris phoned asking if there was a possibility of getting Rory Schlein to rejoin the club. I contacted Rory and offered to sponsor him, to which he agreed and he was able to come to terms with Chris and David. Rory had a banner year and I felt things were on the rise."

George has told us much more about what happened behind the scenes in the period leading up to the 2016 but it was not relevant to the book.

[BV66 34]

Gearge Carswell should write a book of his own, it would be quite revealing.

[Goldhawk 76]

Hi Guys,

Iv'e read the book and it's an excellent read from a Speedway legend.

First and most importantly of all let's not lose sight that PC has been a fantastic rider, World Champion, ambassitor for England, and for British Speedway and has helped massively in saving Belle Vue from oblivion. Converserly what Chris Morton and David Gordon did in bringing the NSS to Speedway was incredible and bottom line is they should be honoured for it. The current BV promotion have lead by example with brilliantly prepared and presented race track and The Mighty Aces are back as the were back in the day ( i first went to Hyde Road in 1970 and that speaks for itself )

Above are all known facts and few would argue with. 

Whether B.V. are being mean spirited here or riders are asking for unreasonable requests from them is not doing either any favours and shouldn't be debated here.

The fans of Belle Vue and Speedway owe all parties above a great deal.

What i and others have said earlier is they should come together and sort it out before the start of season.

i am sure all Speedway fans would like to see that and to see both PC and Mort back at Belle Vue along with others who have graced club - They are it !!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Goldhawk
punctuation

[TonyMac 720]

Reporter Claire Hannah's piece with Peter Collins will be on ITV Granada Reports, in the north-west region, from 6:29pm tonight (Friday, Dec 30).

An extended version of this interview will appear on Granada Report's website later. I'll post a link as soon as it's available.

Signed copies of PC's book can still be obtained from us at www.retro-speedway.com

[Gordon Pairman 457]

23 hours ago, TonyMac said:

Maybe a bit disingenuous of you there, Gordon, although it's good that you have acknowledged George Carswell's role and the price he and his family ultimately paid for helping to prop up BV at various stages.

When I wrote earlier in this thread that George was 'financial involved' in all regimes from Perrin onwards and therefore provided support and insights to PC's printed take on events, I didn't necessarily mean he had money invested as a listed co-promoter or director of BV.

To put the record straight, some of the insights and factual recollections provided by George to Peter and I during the course of putting the book together include matters pertaining to the Tony Mole-Ian Thomas era, too. Ian contacted George asking if he would be prepared to sponsor any riders (essentially to facilitate the cost of including them in the team) and he did so in the case of Simon Stead. He'd also agreed to back Rory Schlein but Thomas U-turned and Aces signed Andy Smith instead.

More importantly, as mentioned in PC's book, George also told Mole and Thomas that he would finance a deal to bring Tai Woffinden to Kirky Lane. George explained: "One other interesting situation arose during one of my visits to Belle Vue. Tai Woffinden was reportedly going to Wolverhampton for the reported sum of £10,000 plus extras.

"As Tai had cut his teeth with the Colts I told Tony and Ian that I would match or beat the offer for him to become a Belle Vue asset. To my surprise, they said they weren’t interested."

George's input was also sought by the BV promotion after Mole sold out to David Gordon and Chris Morton, presumably during some of the period of your involvement. GC writes: "As the (2007 takeover) deal had come so late into the off-season they had great difficulty in putting out a competitive team. Chris phoned me in Vancouver and asked whether I would still sponsor Simon Stead, which I agreed to do. Chris and I had known each other for a considerable amount of time - in fact for a short period I had worked with Chris and Steve Casey at Allied Dunbar. The team predictably finished bottom of the league in 2007.

"Chris and I talked regularly by phone and discussed the potential of several up and coming riders. Prior to the start of 2011 Chris phoned asking if there was a possibility of getting Rory Schlein to rejoin the club. I contacted Rory and offered to sponsor him, to which he agreed and he was able to come to terms with Chris and David. Rory had a banner year and I felt things were on the rise."

George has told us much more about what happened behind the scenes in the period leading up to the 2016 but it was not relevant to the book.

Dear me. Where to start? First of all, Tony Mole didn’t sell out to David Gordon and Chris Morton. David and Chris walked away from the deal on offer, the same as I had walked away some months earlier. I then made the approach to David and Chris about putting together a consortium. Similar but different. 
And on the financial involvement, I repeat that George had no financial involvement in the promotion. His individual sponsorship was hugely important, but went directly to riders. 
Last year, I financially supported various riders, events and organisations, including speedway promotions but would never claim I had a financial involvement with any of them. The differentiation is important as I never sought nor was asked for my input to the running of the businesses, and have little or no insight into their day to day operations.