Peter Collins Book

[PotteringAround 633]

4 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m confused. Too many Peters for me to follow. Are you saying there was no mention of two times world champion Peter Craven in the programme for the Peter Craven Memorial Trophy? Because there was. Or no mention of one time world champion Peter Collins which there probably wasn’t because why would there be? 
As to photos of Peter Craven in the suite named after him - which is a multi-use room not just meant for speedway - are there pictures of other riders there? If so, there should be one of Peter Craven. If not, why not asked the current promoters if they think there should be?

You're correct.  Obviously lots of Peter Craven in the Peter Craven Memorial meeting programme (and a big photo of him on the cover).  Don't think there was any mention of Peter Collins in the Peter Craven programme (unless he bought one himself off ebay and scrawled a nice message in it).

No photos of anyone inside the Peter Craven suite, as you say it's a multi-use function suite used by lots of sports and schools.  But there are some big boards in the concourse with list details of the achievements and the multiple world titles won by Mauger, Fundin, Crump, Craven, and even the single title won by Collins.

 

[steve roberts 9,247]

21 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I’m confused. Too many Peters for me to follow. Are you saying there was no mention of two times world champion Peter Craven in the programme for the Peter Craven Memorial Trophy? Because there was. Or no mention of one time world champion Peter Collins which there probably wasn’t because why would there be? 
As to photos of Peter Craven in the suite named after him - which is a multi-use room not just meant for speedway - are there pictures of other riders there? If so, there should be one of Peter Craven. If not, why not asked the current promoters if they think there should be?

...personally I would have thought a photo/plaque commemorating Peter Craven would be appropriate in a suite/room named after him?

Edited February 17, 2023 by steve roberts

[Sir Sidney 292]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...personally I would have thought a photo/plaque commemorating Peter Craven would be appropriate in a suite/room named after him?

Perhaps not within the control of the speedway promoters.

If you want to hire the Peter Craven suite you do so via Better Leisure, as a part of the Belle Vue Leisure complex ( same with pitches in the centre).  https://www.better.org.uk/leisure-centre/manchester/belle-vue-sports-village/facilities

Isn't speedway just a tenant on agreed dates now, rather than in control of the stadium? 

[steve roberts 9,247]

48 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said:

Perhaps not within the control of the speedway promoters.

If you want to hire the Peter Craven suite you do so via Better Leisure, as a part of the Belle Vue Leisure complex ( same with pitches in the centre).  https://www.better.org.uk/leisure-centre/manchester/belle-vue-sports-village/facilities

Isn't speedway just a tenant on agreed dates now, rather than in control of the stadium? 

I have to confess I've no idea what facility the stadium offers on the wider scale and to what degree but thanks for the link.

[OveFundinFan 4,145]

6 hours ago, PotteringAround said:

You're correct.  Obviously lots of Peter Craven in the Peter Craven Memorial meeting programme (and a big photo of him on the cover).  Don't think there was any mention of Peter Collins in the Peter Craven programme (unless he bought one himself off ebay and scrawled a nice message in it).

No photos of anyone inside the Peter Craven suite, as you say it's a multi-use function suite used by lots of sports and schools.  But there are some big boards in the concourse with list details of the achievements and the multiple world titles won by Mauger, Fundin, Crump, Craven, and even the single title won by Collins.

To put things into perspective Peter Collins has indeed won one individual world championship. Since 1936 (the first officially recognised world championship year), only 37 different riders have won the title. Being one of those 37 is something of an amazing achievement in itself.

Apart from that he has won 5 world team championships and 4 best pairs world championship.  So a total of 10 world championships. Some achievement.

Total speedway world championships                 
Ivan Mauger       12               
Ove Fundin         12           
Jason Crump      5        
Peter Craven       2               
Peter Collins     10

 

[RoundTheBoards 271]

Since we lost Peter Craven in 1963 and the first World Pairs Championship wasn't staged until 1968, it's hardly surprising that Craven's total number of World Pairs title wins exactly matches the total number of terminal cancer patients he callously insulted.

[OveFundinFan 4,145]

I assume none on here know exactly how Peter Collins stroke has affected him. I assume you all seen the current adverts on TV where quick action is needed to treat a stroke victim - remember the advert uses F.A.S.T. (face, arms, speech, time). The internet has just informed that every minute a stroke is not attended 1.9 billion brain cells die. So how long was PC not attended that morning he had the stroke.              
The internet also informed me a stroke can affect different parts of the brain, and therefore different functions. I know that by exprience. My dad, in his late 80’s dropped one morning, well over an hour (we don’t know how long) before he was found in a coma. Never recovered, 4 days later he died. He was worrying about mum, his wife for over 60 years. She had a number of strokes, such that when she died some 2 years after her first stroke she couldn’t do anything for herself. Internet also informs me one type of stroke affects logical thinking. Maybe that’s the type of stroke PC suffered, no one here probably knows. But if that is the case it could be why he acted the way he did that night signing books.                    
As my mum and dad died of a stroke(s), I am being treated as likely to have a stroke. I just hope if I survive and my actions are at times unusual, even offensive, people around me will cut me some slack.  We are all imperfect humans and at times will, and do, offend others.
 

Edited February 17, 2023 by OveFundinFan

[JC! 142]

Again, PC put himself in a position where he wrote, and publicised, his book - those around him, including his publisher, knew his condition.

You can carry on excusing him, but, he was out of order and has apologised accordingly.

[Vic Meldrew 76]

22 hours ago, JC! said:

What do his riding achievements have to do with this? Or are you just being juvenile and spiteful?

Maybe contact him about this, he seems like a reasonable person and would likely hear you out.

Thank you for those few kind words.

I was responding to Ian Corcoran's post of 16/2/2023 where he seems to be comparing the respective status of Peter Collins with that of Mark Lemon. I am well aware of the riding achievements of Peter Collins and everything he has done for Belle Vue throughout the years but I am not familiar with Mark Lemon's riding achievements.

Perhaps you can elucidate how the comments can be classified as juvenile or spiteful.

[IanCorcoran 43]

1 hour ago, Vic Meldrew said:

Thank you for those few kind words.

I was responding to Ian Corcoran's post of 16/2/2023 where he seems to be comparing the respective status of Peter Collins with that of Mark Lemon. I am well aware of the riding achievements of Peter Collins and everything he has done for Belle Vue throughout the years but I am not familiar with Mark Lemon's riding achievements.

Perhaps you can elucidate how the comments can be classified as juvenile or spiteful.

You really have got hold of the wrong end of the snooker cue. I make NO mention of comparing the riding status of Peter Collins and Mark Lemon. I will let you re-read the section :-

 I noticed in his book that ''all Mark Lemon needs to do is go to his house and sort it out with him'' which suggests he still believes he is the 'A' aide as they would say in boxing. He still believes he holds the power position and that is simply delusional.  

Please show me where I compare the respective riding achievements? Mark Lemon is the PROMOTER at Belle Vue Speedway and the person making the call on who does and does not enter on a free pass. Not Peter Collins. I also quote directly from his book. I do not compare them as speedway riders. For some strange and bizarre reason - you do. 

[JC! 142]

3 hours ago, Vic Meldrew said:

Thank you for those few kind words.

I was responding to Ian Corcoran's post of 16/2/2023 where he seems to be comparing the respective status of Peter Collins with that of Mark Lemon. I am well aware of the riding achievements of Peter Collins and everything he has done for Belle Vue throughout the years but I am not familiar with Mark Lemon's riding achievements.

Perhaps you can elucidate how the comments can be classified as juvenile or spiteful.

Yeah sure you did. Might be easier to believe if Ian had compared their riding careers - you just took the opportunity to take a cheap shot.

At least be big enough to accept that when you are called out, back pedalling like this makes you look, quite frankly ridiculous. 

[steve roberts 9,247]

One of the best races I ever witnessed was between PC (guesting for Dave Morton) and White City's Gordon Kennett at Hackney in 1977. They rode shoulder to shoulder for the entire four laps (PC on the outside and Gordon the inside) giving each other plenty of room to race and finished a "dead heat" as they crossed the line...great stuff!

[nw42 2,053]

23 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

One of the best races I ever witnessed was between PC (guesting for Dave Morton) and White City's Gordon Kennett at Hackney in 1977. They rode shoulder to shoulder for the entire four laps (PC on the outside and Gordon the inside) giving each other plenty of room to race and finished a "dead heat" as they crossed the line...great stuff!

Great post, enough description to create a picture in the minds eye of that race, the noise, smell, crowd noise, brilliant.    I was fortunate enough to see the run-off between PC & Michanek in the 73 cup final, said by those present to be the best race they had ever seen.  I can still take myself back to that night and recall the excitement.

[steve roberts 9,247]

27 minutes ago, nw42 said:

Great post, enough description to create a picture in the minds eye of that race, the noise, smell, crowd noise, brilliant.    I was fortunate enough to see the run-off between PC & Michanek in the 73 cup final, said by those present to be the best race they had ever seen.  I can still take myself back to that night and recall the excitement.

That's a race I would have enjoyed...it's written down in speedway folklore.

My first visit to Hyde Road (1984) I remember well a race involving Hans Nielsen, PC & Chris Morton. Hans made the gate and tried to cover as much of the track as possible as PC & Mort were buzzing around his rear wheel and they both eventually passed him...one on the outside the other the inside and there was nothing that Hans could do about it!

Going back to the 1973 PC & Mich encounter I recall that PC was operating both the clutch and throttle on the same right (?) handlebar...quite a feat!

Edited February 18, 2023 by steve roberts

[Vic Meldrew 76]

3 hours ago, IanCorcoran said:

You really have got hold of the wrong end of the snooker cue. I make NO mention of comparing the riding status of Peter Collins and Mark Lemon. I will let you re-read the section

Thank you Ian.

I never said that you were comparing the riding status of the two parties. I said that you seem to be comparing the status of Peter Collins and Mark Lemon. If this interpretation is incorrect then my apologies for any misunderstanding.

I am well aware that Mark Lemon is the manager of Belle Vue and that Peter Collins is a retired ex rider. If we were comparing the status of the two parties in this apparent dispute over free passes for ex riders how would you compare the status of the two parties and what criteria would you use? You say that PC still thinks that he holds the power position and that he is delusional. How do you know this as a fact?